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Author Topic:   Is god an objective reality?
pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 16 of 22 (472808)
06-24-2008 7:43 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by New Cat's Eye
06-24-2008 10:26 AM


Re: god of the imagination?
But you are wrong because if the above was true, then the concept of god could have never emerged.
I don't know but you make a good point. Where would this concept of god have emerged?
I think the only 'evidence' of god is the imagination.
To be honest, I would perfer to believe in god, but I feel the notion of god was 'ingrained' in me as a child. No longer a child, I wish to know the truth. regards

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-24-2008 10:26 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-27-2008 11:53 AM pelican has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 22 (473143)
06-27-2008 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Granny Magda
06-24-2008 10:22 AM


Re: Recognising Objectivity
You have no evidence other than subjective experience. That makes your God claim completely indistinguishable from subjective delusion for any other person.
You're right there, Granny.
For this reason, I can't trust anyone but myself. Myself tells me that god does exist, so I believe that he does.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Granny Magda, posted 06-24-2008 10:22 AM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Granny Magda, posted 06-27-2008 2:49 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 22 (473152)
06-27-2008 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by pelican
06-24-2008 7:43 PM


Re: god of the imagination?
me writes:
you writes:
I would think that if someone is objective (without emotional attachment and prior knowledge) then it is impossible for god to exist in their reality.
But you are wrong because if the above was true, then the concept of god could have never emerged.
I don't know but you make a good point. Where would this concept of god have emerged?
Somewhere in the distant past in humans' evolutionary history, there was no concept of god. Nowadays there is a concept of god. Somewhere in between, the concept of god had to have emerge.
If, as you said, the concept of god couldn't exist without emotional attachment and prior knowledge, then the first concept of god couldn't have emerged. But it did, so you're wrong.
To be honest, I would perfer to believe in god, but I feel the notion of god was 'ingrained' in me as a child. No longer a child, I wish to know the truth.
I was ingrained as a chid too. Then I went to college. I was an atheist for a while, but I became reconvinced that god exists.
I suppose it could be that the brainwashing was just that good, or that we fall back on what we're comfortable with, etc. But from my own experiences I have concluded that god exists. That is the truth I know

Science fails to recognize the single most potent element of human existence.
Letting the reigns go to the unfolding is faith, faith, faith, faith.
Science has failed our world.
Science has failed our Mother Earth.
-System of a Down, "Science"
He who makes a beast out of himself, gets rid of the pain of being a man.
-Avenged Sevenfold, "Bat Country"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by pelican, posted 06-24-2008 7:43 PM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
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Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 19 of 22 (473181)
06-27-2008 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by New Cat's Eye
06-27-2008 10:38 AM


Re: Recognising Objectivity
I can't trust anyone but myself. Myself tells me that god does exist, so I believe that he does
Fair enough in so far as it goes, but it does nothing to make a case for God's objectivity.
Myself, I wouldn't be satisfied with that level of evidence. I would want to ask some sort of question equivalent to "Did you just see what I saw?" before placing any weight on such an innately unlikely proposition as God.
May all your delusions be beneficent ones, because if you are willing to accept whatever you "sense" as being real, I wouldn't like to be around you should you ever fall prey to some more dangerous idea.

Mutate and Survive

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-27-2008 10:38 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-27-2008 3:08 PM Granny Magda has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 22 (473184)
06-27-2008 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Granny Magda
06-27-2008 2:49 PM


Re: Recognising Objectivity
Fair enough in so far as it goes, but it does nothing to make a case for God's objectivity.
You mean like how not having repeatable evidence of god doesn't make a case against gods objectivity?
Myself, I wouldn't be satisfied with that level of evidence. I would want to ask some sort of question equivalent to "Did you just see what I saw?" before placing any weight on such an innately unlikely proposition as God.
Yeah well, there's millions of people that believe in god
May all your delusions be beneficent ones, because if you are willing to accept whatever you "sense" as being real,
Nah, not whatever I sense... I mean, well, I have been drunk before.
I wouldn't like to be around you should you ever fall prey to some more dangerous idea.
Why assume that I will?
As if religious poeple are automatically prone to dangerous ideas....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Granny Magda, posted 06-27-2008 2:49 PM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Granny Magda, posted 06-28-2008 8:13 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 21 of 22 (473237)
06-27-2008 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by New Cat's Eye
06-27-2008 11:53 AM


Re: god of the imagination?
If, as you said, the concept of god couldn't exist without emotional attachment and prior knowledge, then the first concept of god couldn't have emerged. But it did, so you're wrong.
I was speaking in the present moment of what is driving the belief in god. From personal experience, everything I 'knew' about god was from heresay and my own emotions, generally fear.
So who was this cave man who first had the idea?
But from my own experiences I have concluded that god exists.
I wonder why we have drawn opposite conclusions? I would be convinced however, if the personal experience with god is more than just imagination.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-27-2008 11:53 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 22 of 22 (473309)
06-28-2008 8:13 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by New Cat's Eye
06-27-2008 3:08 PM


Re: Recognising Objectivity
You mean like how not having repeatable evidence of god doesn't make a case against gods objectivity?
On the contrary, it very much does make such a case, albeit not a comprehensive and conclusive case; but then one cannot prove a universal negative, so that shouldn't be surprising. You have no evidence. Your only poor excuse for for evidence is a vague notion you have cooked up in your head. That is entirely compatible with God being imaginary indeed, it is more compatible with such a scenario since real things have a tendency to leave verifiable evidence of their existence.
A subjective thing is something that only exists in someone's mind. Your "evidence" only exists within your mind. Do you not see a correlation here?
As for the millions who believe in God, do they all "sense" him the way you do? If so, do they necessarily "sense" the same God? How would you know?
Nah, not whatever I sense... I mean, well, I have been drunk before.
Do you imagine that being sober makes you immune to delusion? How do you distinguish between delusion and divine presence? Moreover, how do you do so when you have no means of outside verification? I would suggest that your means of deciding this is simply wishful thinking.
Granny writes:
Catholic Scientist writes:
I wouldn't like to be around you should you ever fall prey to some more dangerous idea.
Why assume that I will?
CS, I want to make absolutely clear that I don't think that you will or that you are more likely to suffer from mental illness. You seem fairly stable to me. What I am saying is that in the event that you should come under the influence of some dangerous delusion, the consequences would likely be worse, given that you are willing to accept such a frighteningly low burden of proof for ideas that come into your head.
Edited by Granny Magda, : Fixed code.

Mutate and Survive

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-27-2008 3:08 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
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