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Junior Member (Idle past 5157 days) Posts: 24 From: Chorley, Lancs, UK Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Speed of Light | |||||||||||||||||||||||
onifre Member (Idle past 2980 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Would I be the first that someone thought was wrong? A stellar group of folks I would say. Of course not.
I only suggest that Doppler should be confirmed by some other means before closing the book forever. Sometimes one means is all you'll be able to have. If it as solid as something like the Doppler which can not only be tested for accuracy on galaxies but it can be tested here on Earth with something as simple as a car, I think you've got yourself a pretty good means for testing direction. I do see your point though. But don't forget that the metric space in between the galaxies is also measured and this further indicates that the space between them is expanding. All great truths begin as blasphemies I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your fuckin' mouth.
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Agobot Member (Idle past 5559 days) Posts: 786 Joined: |
Why do we have to have Dark Energy to explain the expansion of the universe? If, for whatever reason, 10^-33 seconds after the BB, the universe started to expand very rapidly, what force could stop this expansion? Wouldn't all celestial bodies be moving through space almost indefinitely, unless a force that I can't think of, starts to slow them down(planets are rotating around our sun for this very same reason, right)?
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NosyNed Member Posts: 9004 From: Canada Joined: |
Dark energy isn't used to talk about the expansion of the universe. The problem is that, in the last few years, measurements indicate that the rate of expansion is increasing.
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ramoss Member (Idle past 641 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Well, the issue is that the rate at which the universe is expanding is increasing. Also, something that could potentially slow down the expansion of the universe is this little thing known as 'gravity'.
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Agobot Member (Idle past 5559 days) Posts: 786 Joined: |
ramoss writes: Well, the issue is that the rate at which the universe is expanding is increasing. Also, something that could potentially slow down the expansion of the universe is this little thing known as 'gravity'. I would think this little thing called gravity would decrease in strength with the ever expanding universe.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2980 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
I would think this little thing called gravity would decrease in strength with the ever expanding universe. Thats the issue basically, that gravity seems to be lossing out to whatever it is thats expanding the Universe. If gravity was effecting the expantion then something like the Big Crunch... Big Crunch - Wikipedia ...would happen. However, the Universe is expanding and accelerating with no indication of regressing, so that is why the predicted outcome is now shifted more to a Big Freeze. Heat death of the universe - Wikipedia All great truths begin as blasphemies I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your fuckin' mouth.
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ramoss Member (Idle past 641 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
That is exactly why 'Dark Energy' is a hypothesis right now , because of the observation.
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Taz Member (Idle past 3320 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
Wow, you guys are masters of the bleeding obvious.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2980 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Dark energy isn't used to talk about the expansion of the universe. The problem is that, in the last few years, measurements indicate that the rate of expansion is increasing.
Dark energy - Wikipedia All great truths begin as blasphemies I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your fuckin' mouth.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2980 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
That is exactly why 'Dark Energy' is a hypothesis right now , because of the observation. Huh? All great truths begin as blasphemies I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your fuckin' mouth.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2980 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Wow, you guys are masters of the bleeding obvious.
How so? All great truths begin as blasphemies I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your fuckin' mouth.
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Libmr2bs Member (Idle past 5755 days) Posts: 45 Joined: |
If galaxies are shrinking then the space between them would be expanding.
We can't see the center of our galaxy which would imply that we most probably can't see the far side of another galaxy. This would prevent us from seeing if the far side is moving away or toward the observer. It would seem that this is the real test of whether the universe is expanding and its rate of expansion. I've researched this matter but can't find a reference where this situation has been explored.
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lyx2no Member (Idle past 4745 days) Posts: 1277 From: A vast, undifferentiated plane. Joined: |
Why would galaxies that are farther away be shrinking faster?
We know they are farther because they subtend a lesser arc, have smaller, dimmer globular clusters, have cute, little, teeny-tiny super nova and appear closer together. The same way those Texas town look when you're still twenty miles away on a night run. We don't have much of a choice in seeing our Milky Way edge on, but the majority of galaxies are not edge on to us (or even spirals). And having several billion of them to choose from we could ignore any that weren't straight on, clockwise spirals and still have plenty to spare. Heck, let's ignore the centers of galaxies altogether. Let's just measure the red shift of the the high side of vertically oriented , edge on galaxies. Some will have peculiar motions toward us and some away. Again, with billions to choose from we'll still have plenty. There are about a jillion ways to overcome your difficulties that a thoughtful man can come up with on a slow night. If someone did research this I'd bet his next research project was to determine if the lens caps should be left on or take off during observations. Edited by lyx2no, : No reason given. Kindly There is a spider by the water pipe.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2980 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
If galaxies are shrinking then the space between them would be expanding. If galaxies were shrinking, then they would all appear to be moving away from us at the same rate. But we observe that farther objects are moving away from us faster than near objects (some of which are actually getting closer to us) which is consistent with the Big Bang. If galaxies were shrinking then stars in our own galaxy would be blue shifted toward us, which we don't observe. Edited by onifre, : No reason given. All great truths begin as blasphemies I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your fuckin' mouth.
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Taz Member (Idle past 3320 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
Agobot writes:
I don't think anyone has given you a clear enough answer yet. Why do we have to have Dark Energy to explain the expansion of the universe? First of all, you need to know a couple bleedingly obvious facts. (1) The universe is expanding at an accelerated rate. (2) There isn't any force that we know of that could account for such a universal acceleration. In order for all the matter in the universe to accelerate like that despite the force of gravity being present, there needs to be some kind of energy responsible for it. Hence, we call it dark energy. It's sort of like dark matter. We don't know what the hell it is but we sure as hell could see what it's doing to our universe. The best suggestion I've heard is that perhaps the universal accelerated expansion of the universe is caused by the virtual particles popping in and out of existence. The total combination of all this causes an outward "pressure" that is enough to cause everything to expand. I'm trying to see things your way, but I can't put my head that far up my ass.
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