The Prophecy of the 70 weeks of Daniel

If Danny would have guessed to himself that something is coming in the next thousand years his odds of getting the exact date would only be 1:10^5.563Do you have any idea how scientific notation work?

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KindlyThere is a spider by the water pipe.

You say the odds were a certain number.Based on what? That someone got one day in so many right? No, Daniel got all the rest of the kingdoms on earth right, at least so far as we know. It was not a matter of guessing the day. Then, add to that the destruction of the temple, the Messiah being killed, how many divisions in Greece, and that it would not go to Alexander's posterity, etc, and the numbers go from impossible to absolutely not an option, under any stretch of the imagination.Only One that saw the future, and was there could call it like that. The Ancient of Days, that inhabits eternity.Edited by starman, : just kinda felt like it

If one says X is going to happen within the next 365,242 days ( one thousand years), then the odds of them guessing the exact day is 1:365,242. 365,242 log₁₀ 5.563.But that is not the point. The point is that one should not be deceiving oneself posting impossible odds when one has no understanding of odds or numbers. And one certainly shouldn't be trying to deceive others who do understand them.

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KindlyThere is a spider by the water pipe.

It was not x that was said to be going to happen, it was xyz, and b, and c, and j. Put that in the mix. It is a bit like playing Russian roulette with a fully loaded gun, and hoping that either a bullet will misfire, or the trigger will jam. And doing it a million times, with different guns, all failing to go off. But not only that, asking several friends to also come with loaded guns, pointed at your head and all fire at one, and then repeating that a million times, and living.Whether we only gave the gang 200 tries, or two thousand, or half a million, would not matter at all. One is more than enough. Edited by starman, : No reason given.Edited by starman, : No reason given.

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Forth relative to what?

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The fourth Empire in the vision of the statue in Daniel 2

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To get an accurate understanding of the prophecies of Daniel you need to combine the info from the various accounts, beginning with the image of Daniel 2, the first kingdom being Babylon. The only named one is Babylon here.

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That is exacty what I've done. For instance I include the fact that the End Time Empire of Daniel 8 is clearly Greek.How do you deal with that if there are Empires after Greece ?On the other hand you assume that the vision of the statue must conform directly to the animals in Daniel 8. This is not necessarily the case because the choice of image demands a four-fold division. I would say that the break down between Media and Persia is likely, since the Silver Empire is "inferior to" the Gold and the Persian Empire was far greater than the Babylonian (as well as incorporating the Median and Babylonian Empires, Persia conquered Lydia and Egypt)
Others suggest that the split is between Alexander and his successors.Either way the overwhleming evidence form other prophecies is that the final Empire is Greek. Roma simply plays a minor part in one of them.Not to mention that in reality choosing Rome as the final Empire still makes Daniel's prophecies a failure. Since neither choice works for you, why fight so hard against the evidence ?

starman,what does this prophesy have to do with the rise of dominate powers in the world today? The prophesy is told to be fullfilled in the 70 week period. So, the time frame of the prophesy, biblically, is limited strickly to historical biblical claims and fullfilled strickly by historical biblical claims.Edited by Force, : deletionEdited by Force, : change of verbage for better understanding

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Thanks
To believe in "Force" is to believe in Love, Wisdom, Intelligence, Force, Agility, and Charm.

I'm going to cut out a lot to keep this short. Early Jewish Writings includes several quotes which you have not dealt with:e.g. (Taken from THhe Jerome Bible Commentary[)

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Let's see you predict the next four world powers, and the year till Messiah, and the countries that will attck a country that no longer existed, thousands of years in the future!!

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You really need to get out of this habit of assuming your conclusions.
You have yet to prove that Daniel predicted any of these.

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No, because it already put a certain creature that was represented as Greece, and another kingdom followed that one

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One that you ASSUME is Greece. There is nothing in the text that makes that identification.

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But it is clear that Greece got trampled, and another took it's place.

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No, it is not clear that the power that was trampled is Greece.

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Say what?? 69 times seven is 483 years. From the proclamation business, that puts it you know where!!

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You mean from your preferred date of the proclamation - preferred because it gives the date you want. Except that it gives a date that doesn't fit with Daniel's other prophecies.

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" Verse 26. And the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary
By the "prince" Titus, the son of Vespasian, is plainly intended; and "the people of that prince" are no other than the Romans, who, according to the prophecy, destroyed the sanctuary, hakkodesh, the holy place or temple, and, as a flood, swept away all, till the total destruction of that obstinate people finished the war."

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Except as I pointed out verse 27 has the Temple still in business. Which was NOT true after 70 AD. And if 70 AD is shoretly after the end of the 69th week, then the Messiah must get cut off at most a few years earlier, in the late 60s.

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The seventy weeks therefore here spoken of amount to four hundred and ninety years.

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Which is exactly what you don't beleive, because you keep trying to slip in extra years. You need to slip in nearly 40 between the Messiah being cut off nad the destruction and nearly 2000 (so far !) between that and the end of the 70th week.And that utterly destroys any claim of exact prediction. If you can slip extra time into the count whenever it is convenient than the time periods just represent minimums. Nothing more.

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If the ten kingdoms are old Roman empire related leftovers, Rome can.

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Since Daniel does not include "ten kingdoms" and there aren't "ten Rome empire related leftovers" (in reality OR the Book of Daniel) this is hardly a relevant point.

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Greece was to be beaten, as is clear. It is preposterous to pretend it was to continue on according to the bible.

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You know, I agree with that ! Greece was to be defeated by the Kingdom of God which would take over the world around 160 BC

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It is, placing geographically the last king. Not claiming Greece was still kicking.

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Obviously you haven't read Daniel 8. The four horns (8:8) are the successors of Alexander (8:22). The vile king is the "little horn" that grows FROM one of the four horns (8:9). This is a closer association than that of Media and Persia which are represented separate horns on one beast (8:3, 8:20). If the association there is purely geographical then all your ideas of Media-Persia being considered one are in deep trouble !On calendars

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Since the Jewish calendar had not changed from the earliest days, it is necessarily the calendar we should use in attempting to understand prophecy.

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we must conclude that God had no intention of fitting prophecy into 360 day years.

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I'm glad that you have come to see that I am right on this point.

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Sounds like any big possible differences are nixed here! No way you can take the time away from the time of Jesus! Be amazed.

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Yes, I am amazed. I am amazed to think that you have the idea that if I was right and your source was wrong it somehow hurts my position !I argued that your source (Chuck Colson) was WRONG to claim that the Jewish Year was 360 days, and therefore WRONG to claim that the nuimber of days between the proclamation and Jesus' entry ot Jerusalem exactly matched. Using a 365 day year, you need to add more than 6 years and 8 months, - and if you use Colson's start date, that pushed the year into 39 AD. Too late for him - and you.

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Now if you meant chap 9:27, that would be absurd! Because if you notice Messiah had already come and been killed, or cut off by then!!! That seems to place this bit in the last week of Daniel. They again will do the animal sacrifice thingie. That will of course be allowed to be clobbered.

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I do mean 9:27 and it is not ridiculous. In fact it fits. Antiochus forced the resignation of the High Priest Onaias III (2 Maccabees 4:7-10) in favour of Jason, who was also forced out of office by the Jews (2 Maccabees 5:5-7). Antiochus' attack is a consequence of Jason's defeat (2 Maccabees 5:11-16). Either Onaias or Jason could be the second messiah.You only get problems if you assume that Daniel meant Jesus. But it is that assumption that causes the problems in interpreting the text.
And that is how we know that Jesus is NOT the messiah of the 12 weeks.

Is it historical or hysterical, how christianity attaches everything under the sun to a Jewish prophesy, always culminating in itself - with no mention of Danial's immediate kin!?

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No, because it is clear that the last week of Daniel is in the latter time. Notice that Israel never stopped their transgressions when Jesus came.

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Actually they did - observing the command of money changing and single handedly refusing to bow to a roman statue, constituting the greatest defense in all recorded history. Thereafter, the catholic church took on the name of roman, continued with Rome's heresy dacrees, and went on to murder millions of innocent folk. Jesus has turned his face away from this group - and harkened to the God of israel.THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS - ELSE THE TRUTH WILL NOT SET YOU FREE.

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what does this prophesy have to do with the rise of dominate powers in the world today? The prophesy is told to be fullfilled in the 70 week period. So, the time frame of the prophesy, biblically, is limited strickly to historical biblical claims and fullfilled strickly by historical biblical claims.

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If a prophesy is made to happen by the power of a sword or the rake - it is not prophesy. A prophesy must also be vindicated in OPEN form [as opposed a shrouded one], and ideally occur when it is least plausable - so none can say it was the result of natural forces. A prohesy first applies to its contemporary time, if there is a clear connection with the prophesy with events occuring at that time.The most powerful and greatest prophesy is when a precide date is nominated, as with Joseph predicting the saving and death of two prisoners - at a precise time and day, and the forthcoming 7 years of properity and famine: nowhere was prophesy greater than at this instant. The only time the time factor being nominated is not applicable, is when it is declared by God, which constitutes the greatest prophesies ever made:'KNOW FOR A SURETY THY SEED SHALL BE IN BONDAGE'
[Made upon the Jewish nation - before any Jews existed; thus it is a test unto the nations]And'I will surely return you to your land'
[This occured when it was least possible, and remains the greatest affront to the world today].Not all prophesy is welcomed.

Guessing the number of days is equivalent to guessing the day upon which X will occur, and I gave Danny a “sometime within the next thousand years” gap to drop X into. That is probably over generous. The nut-ball definition for “nigh” is usually less then 20 years.Why are you arguing for ICANT and not bothering to read what he said?

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KindlyThere is a spider by the water pipe.

As I said, in order to get the whole picture right one must apply the info given in the entire sequence of visions.Go to Daniel 7:24 where you find that the 10 horns of the 4th beast, i.e the same beast (empire) which is destroyed by the little stone of Dan 2 are 10 kings within that 4th empire.These 10 kings are clearly future to emerge in the end times (modern times) three of which shall be conquered by the little notable horn, i.e. likely the antichrist entity.This is also the same 10 kings of Revelation 13, 17 and 18 which rules the latter day world and which destroys Mystery Babylon (imo, Vatican City).

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

So you like to use Greece as the fourth kingdom, to try to make God look silly. Hope you don't think it is in any way meaningful. The cross checks are abounding, the visions are not just in one place, to be able to be abused by folks like you. Sorry.The kingdoms are simply not a burning issue. Denial does not give your claims credence. One kingdom followed the other. Greece was not the final one, and is not worthy of wasting time pretending it is some sort of player.Be honest.

That says nothing, since biblical claims cover eternity. As well as the whole history of earth, from start to end, and on into infinity, and beyond.The last seven year period is part of the 70 week vision concerning Israel, but not the focus of the thread. That is more a topic for believers. The raw fact that all the major kingdoms of earth, especially affecting the area surrounding Israel, were spelled out, even named, in many cases is what might best be looked at in a science forum that goes toward evidence that the bible is not on par with other books of man.

Bingo. The context is clear. A sequence of world kingdoms. The last, related to the fourth, but a different mix.

Nonsense. Naming the whole sequence of kingdoms in advance is a prophetic as anything could get. Adding in the Messiah after 69 weeks is beyond prophesy, it is telling what happened to someone in the past. The temple getting destroyed, and other things is also able to be called nothing short of proof. Denial is an option, not refutation.