bluegenes writes:
IamJoseph writes:
Technically, create refers to something from nothing [ex nihilo]; while forming refers to making something from something else.
Technically, neither "create" nor "form" refers to "something from nothing". Check your dictionary, and you'll see that ex-nihilo (which you've finally learned to spell, thanks to bluegenes the teacher) doesn't come into it.
However, your claim was that "creationism" is the only alternative.
It's your awkward use of language that's the problem once again, Joe. Create doesn't mean creationism.
But once we're talking about "creationism" I'm happy to agree with you that we don't really need the ex-nihilo on this site, as it's usually understood. So for creationism (rather than create which you used in the quote above) I agree with the below:
Joe writes:
However, that your dictionary explanation refers to genesis as one of its meaning, then something from nothing does apply; the term ex nehilo, or something from nothing, need not appear in the texts - while there is no other interpretation here.
So, here again are the dictionary definitions, followed by my comment to which you're now replying:
quote:
-noun 1. the doctrine that matter and all things were created, substantially as they now exist, by an omnipotent Creator, and not gradually evolved or developed.
2. (sometimes initial capital letter) the doctrine that the true story of the creation of the universe is as it is recounted in the Bible, esp. in the first chapter of Genesis.
3. the doctrine that God immediately creates out of nothing a new human soul for each individual born.
bluegenes writes:
There are an infinite number of alternatives to creationism by those definitions. On what basis do you claim that there is no alternative? Blind Faith? Joseph's Desires?
You'll agree that it's the first two definitions that concern us, and I claim that there are an infinite number of alternatives, which there are. You say:
IaJ writes:
You say there are many other alternatives - but you gave no 'for examples'? The issue has nothing to do with faith or desire, and should only be discussed with logic; science does not apply - because no tools or elements subsisted at this juncture.
Right. Alternatives to creationism as defined above. Firstly, if teleology is involved, there can be any number of creators, so the proposition that 357 Goddesses created the universe is just as likely as any other, and you already reach effective infinity anyway without making the obvious point that creators are not required, because, if creators can exist without requiring creators, so can universes, so the universe can come into existence
sans creators.
Otherwise, you get the infinite regression of creators, also giving us infinite possibilities in relation to their numbers and their natures.
So, you ask for "for examples". That's easy.
The universe was created ex-nihilo by seven Goddesses because they thought it would look pretty.
I could go on for ever.
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