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Author Topic:   Meaning of "Us" in Genesis.
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 91 of 194 (461457)
03-25-2008 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by IamJoseph
03-25-2008 8:48 AM


Re: US
I meant, alligning Jeremaiya and Isaiah with Jesus, to the people of Jeremaiya and Isaiah's space-time, would not have made any sense. I did not mean this would not make sense to the people in Jesus' space-time. Obviously it did and continues, and I agreed it is pursuent to a mysterious compulsion, and not a made made inducement.
I would like to put a little more explanation to the law of God which He says He would write in the hearts of the people.
In the New Testament this is Christ Himself coming into the believers and being a spontaneous "law of life" regulating them from within:
"There is now therefore no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has freed me in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and of death." (Romans 8:1)
The law of the Spirit of divine life in Christ Jesus is actually Jesus Himself in His pneumatic form dispensing His life into man.
We must never forget that in His resurrection Christ transfigured Himself into a form in which He could enter into His disciples:
[b]"the last Adam [Christ] became a life giving Spirit."
The "Us" in Genesis 1:26 and the Divine "We" in John 14 are imparted into man through the life giving Spirit which the last Adam became in resurrection.
When Christ comes into the participant of the new covenant, with Him comes the Father and the Holy Spirit. Or we might say that contained in the Holy Spirit is the Father and the Son. In the same chapter of Romans 8 we find Paul using these titles quite enterchangeably:

"The Spirit of God,
The Spirit of Christ,
Christ,
The Spirit of Him Who raised Christ Jesus from the dead"
These titles are used in an equivalent way enterchangeably showing the within Each lives the Other.
"But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Yet if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him. But if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin,the spirit is life because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you." (Romans 8:9-11)
The Spirit of God dwells in the believers. But the Spirit of God dwelling in the believers is also the Spirit of Christ dwelling in the believers. But the Spirit of Christ dwelling in the believers is also Christ Himself dwelling in the believers. Yet Christ Himself dwelling in the believers is also the Spirit of the One Who raised Jesus from the dead dwelling in the believers:
The Spirit of God = The Spirit of Christ = Christ = The Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead.
Here we have the divine and mystical "Us" in whose image we were made, seeking to be the indwelling One, coming to live within the saved. Here we have the Father and the Son coming as the Holy Spirit to give life.
Now consider this sentence - "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)
What did Christ become? He became a life imparting, life giving Spirit. And we just read "He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also GIVE LIFE to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you."
The Triune God is a life dispensing God. God the Father was embidied in Christ. Christ the Son accomplished redemption. And Christ transfigured Himself to become a life giving Spirit to dispense God as life into man.
When you think of me saying the Triune God dispensing life into man I wish you would remember Adam before the tree of life. He needed no redemption at that point because he had not become a sinner.
But regardless, God's eternal purpose still was to dispense and impart the divine life of God into him. There is no need for blood. The tree of life had no blood.
But after the sin of Adam the way to the life of God cannot be passed through without the shedding of blood for a propitiatory sacrifice.
"I wish all would be impressed with the new covenant -
"But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares Jehovah:
I will put My law within them and write it upon their hearts; and I will be God to them, and they will My people ... for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more." (See Jer. 31:31)
The impating of the law of God here is the dispensing of the Triune God as divine life into the redeemed. Before God can impart His life into man man first must be justified, redeemed, forgiven.
This is exactly why Paul wrote -"the spirit is life because of righteousness"
The small s spirit there is not the Spirit of God but the human spirit. Paul is saying that in the new birth the human spirit becomes the ZOE - divine life of God BECAUSE of justification and the imputed righteousness of Christ's redemptive work.
First man's dead human spirit must be resurrected out of its comatose condition. The human spirit is enlivened the instant we receive Jesus as our Savior because it becomes LIFE because of righteousness. Christ Himself is our righteousness. And thusly the comatose and dead human spirit is resurrected - is reborn - is born from above - is born again - is born ANEW.
Everyone knows that BIRTH is only the beginning of life. Birth is the initiation of a long process of growth and maturity. The law of the spontanaous and victorious life of Jesus is installed into the believer. He or she must then grow in that new life to learn to walk by the Spirit. That is to abide in that realm and sphere which is an indwelling and living Savior and Lord Jesus. And with Jesus is the Father and the Holy Spirit.
The Triune God, the "Us" Who created man and made man in His image, comes into man.
God on the INSIDE. This is reality. This is the New Covenant. God as life. This life embodied in the Son and conveyed through the life giving Spirit is the new testament.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by IamJoseph, posted 03-25-2008 8:48 AM IamJoseph has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 92 of 194 (461475)
03-25-2008 6:43 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by IamJoseph
03-25-2008 8:16 AM


Re: US
Hi IAJ,
IamJoseph writes:
than Judaism and Islam fall. Scary, is it not?
Joseph God made a covenant with Abraham that was an everlasting covenant. God does not cancel a contract.
Nothing scary about that.
Jesus established His Church and made an everlasting covenant with it, and gave it orders. If the Church does what it is supposed to do it is blessed. Just like Abrahams descendants were in the OT.
Nothing scary about that.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by IamJoseph, posted 03-25-2008 8:16 AM IamJoseph has not replied

  
Australia 501
Junior Member (Idle past 4137 days)
Posts: 4
Joined: 03-25-2008


Message 93 of 194 (461493)
03-25-2008 8:46 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by New Cat's Eye
03-25-2008 12:09 PM


Re: "Us" is God and Angels
Thank You for your reply Catholic Scientist.
What I pointed out was a different scenario to the one that has been put forward by the churches for hundreds of years. Everything that I wrote is supported by the Bible, I just see and interpret things differently to what has been taught.
I believe: That creation took six eons of time (billions of years). The first light that came was the Spirit of Life (1st eon).
The expanse between the waters (Oceans, Heavens, Clouds)is were the heavens are. (Note "Heavens" is plural) (2nd eon).
The land that appeared from the midst of the waters was what Scientist today have named "Gwondwanda Land" the accumilation of continents before they started moving around the earth on there plates. Plant life with life giving seed then appeared, fruit trees that yield fruit according to its kind. These lived on the first light. (3rd eon).
New lights, the Sun and Moon appeared, for signs and appointed times, and for days and years. The stars also appeared. (4th eon).
All sea creatures and bird life were created, both great and small were created, everything according to its kind. (5th eon).
All land animals and land creatures both great and small were created, everything according to its kind, and as I wrote in my previous article, men and women were created, I believe they were the indigenous folk of the earth. (6th eon).
All of these things I believe weren't created in six 24 hour days, or even six 1000 year days as some teach. The Almighty is a creator, and to create anything that is good, takes time, ask any master craftsman. There is multitude of stumbling blocks to the vastly shortened version 6/24, 6/1000 of creation, one of them is that millions of people in the world have ended up turning to the religion of evolution, as they have not in my opinion been taught the whole truth, they have eyes that can see, and ears that hear, and they can see that the earth is billions of years old. The Gwondwanda Land forest are the oil of today. It has been said that anyone that doesn't believe the 6/24 must be an evolutionist, nothing could be further from the Truth. I believe entirely in creation, everything after its kind, over billions of years.
People have asked me were do the dinosaurs fit into this, the answer is simple, they were obviosly created during the 5th and 6th eons of time. That's a period of millions or billions of years. They were created early during those periods, and had the misfortune of becoming extinct sometime during the sixth eon of time, millions of years ago. It's also note worthy that the indigenous folk of the world, have a long history that goes back tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of years, a long time before the creation of Adam, who I believe was created at the end of the 7th eon of time, after the Almighty had His Rest, this was about 6,008 years ago.
Anyway I must go, I will be back with more soon.
Edited by Howard Shaw, : I put in one word "whole" in front of truth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-25-2008 12:09 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-26-2008 9:55 AM Australia 501 has not replied

  
Recon3rd
Member (Idle past 5842 days)
Posts: 35
Joined: 03-01-2008


Message 94 of 194 (461557)
03-26-2008 8:03 AM


3 in 1
26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. (Gen 1:26-27)
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.(Gen 2:7)
In Gen 1 it sounds like God is speaking to someone when He is actually speaking to Himself, Himself being a three part being. Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Then in Gen 2 it shows how He made us like Himself a 3 in 1 being. 1st we were formed from the earth giving us a body = #1 then He breathed the breath of life into him giving him the spirit of life = #2 and then once we became alive we became a living soul = #3
Remove the life giving spirit and the body dies but the spirit and soul still live.

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-26-2008 9:59 AM Recon3rd has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 95 of 194 (461573)
03-26-2008 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by Australia 501
03-25-2008 8:46 PM


Re: "Us" is God and Angels
What I pointed out was a different scenario to the one that has been put forward by the churches for hundreds of years. Everything that I wrote is supported by the Bible, I just see and interpret things differently to what has been taught.
You seem to be adding a lot of extra stuff that the Bible doesn't mention.
Its a nice little story, but you're just making it up. (no offense)
All of these things I believe weren't created in six 24 hour days, or even six 1000 year days as some teach. The Almighty is a creator, and to create anything that is good, takes time, ask any master craftsman.
An almighty (omnipotent) craftsman? Couldn't he do it in the blink of an eye if he was truley almighty? If he couldn't, then is he truly almighty?
People have asked me were do the dinosaurs fit into this, the answer is simple, they were obviosly created during the 5th and 6th eons of time.
Obviously!?
The Bible doesn't even mention dinosaurs...
I hate to break it to you, but the Bible is not inerrant.

Don't you think that the meaning of "Us" could be really nothing in particular and that god was just talking in first person plural. Like when people use "the proverbial We".
Or like how Carl Malone talks in 3rd person...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Australia 501, posted 03-25-2008 8:46 PM Australia 501 has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 96 of 194 (461574)
03-26-2008 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by Recon3rd
03-26-2008 8:03 AM


Re: 3 in 1
Remove the life giving spirit and the body dies but the spirit and soul still live.
What do you mean remove the life giving spirit? And how do you still have it (still live) if you've removed it?
Also, the soul is the combination of the body and the spirit. When the body dies, the spirit lives on but the spirit/body is no longer a living soul.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Recon3rd, posted 03-26-2008 8:03 AM Recon3rd has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by Recon3rd, posted 03-27-2008 8:22 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Recon3rd
Member (Idle past 5842 days)
Posts: 35
Joined: 03-01-2008


Message 97 of 194 (461706)
03-27-2008 8:22 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by New Cat's Eye
03-26-2008 9:59 AM


Re: 3 in 1
Remove the life giving spirit and the body dies but the spirit and soul still live.
What do you mean remove the life giving spirit? And how do you still have it (still live) if you've removed it?
Also, the soul is the combination of the body and the spirit. When the body dies, the spirit lives on but the spirit/body is no longer a living soul.
I mean when our spirit has been released from it's home, our body, it's dead (the body) as in ceasing to exist as a life form. The soul is what makes you who you are not what you are and is influenced by our body/flesh as well as our spirit. The spirit is what we are. So when a body dies it's dead not the life giving spirit and its soul.
peace

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-26-2008 9:59 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-27-2008 5:05 PM Recon3rd has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 98 of 194 (461756)
03-27-2008 5:05 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by Recon3rd
03-27-2008 8:22 AM


Re: 3 in 1
Of course this is all speculation, but:
I mean when our spirit has been released from it's home, our body, it's dead (the body) as in ceasing to exist as a life form.
This seems bass-ackwards to me. The body doesn't die because the spirit is released. The spirit is released because the body has died.
The soul is what makes you who you are not what you are and is influenced by our body/flesh as well as our spirit.
Who you are is a body with a spirit. When the body dies and you are just spirit, then you are no longer who you were. If the soul continues to be, then it must at least change.
The spirit is what we are.
But your a body too. I think the soul is what you are, which is a body and spirit.
So when a body dies it's dead not the life giving spirit and its soul.
So then the soul is different after the body dies?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Recon3rd, posted 03-27-2008 8:22 AM Recon3rd has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by Recon3rd, posted 03-28-2008 8:14 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Recon3rd
Member (Idle past 5842 days)
Posts: 35
Joined: 03-01-2008


Message 99 of 194 (461843)
03-28-2008 8:14 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by New Cat's Eye
03-27-2008 5:05 PM


Re: 3 in 1
Catholic Scientist writes:
Of course this is all speculation, but:
I mean when our spirit has been released from it's home, our body, it's dead (the body) as in ceasing to exist as a life form.
This seems bass-ackwards to me. The body doesn't die because the spirit is released. The spirit is released because the body has died.
Look at what I wrote again and you'll see I said; when our spirit has been released when do I say it's released? When the body dies.
The soul is what makes you who you are not what you are and is influenced by our body/flesh as well as our spirit.
Who you are is a body with a spirit. When the body dies and you are just spirit, then you are no longer who you were. If the soul continues to be, then it must at least change.
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (Gen 2:7)
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (Heb 4:12)
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. ( 1 Thess 5:23)
The spirit is WHAT we are.
But your a body too. I think the soul is what you are, which is a body and spirit.
For WE know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, WE have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2For in this WE groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 3If so be that being clothed WE shall not be found naked. 4For WE that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. 5Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. 6Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord 7(For we walk by faith, not by sight 8We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. (2 Cor 5:1-7)
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (Gen 2:7)
God formed man from the earth, after He created a body He then breathed the breath of life into him. (the breath of life is a term used to describe the spirit.)
We are not a body, we live in a body. We ARE spirits and we LIVE in this body, when the two are combined they create a soul which is WHO we are.
So when a body dies it's dead not the life giving spirit and its soul.
For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? (Rom 7:22-23)
Yes. God breathed the breath of life or spirit into the body He made, that gave life to the body in the form of a soul.
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. (James 2:26)
So, yes when a body dies it is dead but the spirit that that made man a living soul lives along with it's soul.
So then the soul is different after the body dies?
The soul is WHO we are so it remains itself, after the body dies it no longer has any influence over our soul.
peace

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-27-2008 5:05 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-28-2008 5:19 PM Recon3rd has replied
 Message 105 by jaywill, posted 03-31-2008 7:53 PM Recon3rd has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 100 of 194 (461930)
03-28-2008 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Recon3rd
03-28-2008 8:14 AM


Souls changing
We are not a body, we live in a body. We ARE spirits and we LIVE in this body, when the two are combined they create a soul which is WHO we are.
So then would the "WHO you are" change when you go from being a body with a spirit to just a spirit?
If the soul is created when the body and spirit are combined, how could seperating the spirit from the body not change the soul?
The soul is WHO we are so it remains itself, after the body dies it no longer has any influence over our soul.
So then the soul is different?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Recon3rd, posted 03-28-2008 8:14 AM Recon3rd has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Recon3rd, posted 03-29-2008 8:03 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Recon3rd
Member (Idle past 5842 days)
Posts: 35
Joined: 03-01-2008


Message 101 of 194 (461994)
03-29-2008 8:03 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by New Cat's Eye
03-28-2008 5:19 PM


Re: Souls changing
Recon3rd writes:
We are not a body, we live in a body. We ARE spirits and we LIVE in this body, when the two are combined they create a soul which is WHO we are.
Catholic Scientist writes:
So then would the "WHO you are" change when you go from being a body with a spirit to just a spirit?
If the soul is created when the body and spirit are combined, how could seperating the spirit from the body not change the soul?
It does to the extent that the body no longer has an influence over it. The soul of the spirit man now walks according to his spirit.
Recon3rd writes:
The soul is WHO we are so it remains itself, after the body dies it (body) no longer has any influence over our soul.
Catholic Scientist writes:
So then the soul is different?
Do you believe we were created in Gods image? If you do then you should understand that when the breath of life or the spirit is given to a body it creates a soul. The soul is what makes us who we are, all the qualities you posses comes from your soul, it's your personality it's what distinguishes you from your neighbor. The death of the body doesn't destroy what the spirit created, our soul defines who we are as men.
When someone dies people will say things like, he was a good man he always helped whom ever he could, he was a good husband and good father and so on. They aren't talking about his body but his soul. Our soul, which is influenced by our body and our spirit makes the determination of whats right and wrong. You don't miss the body you miss the person who lived in it, the soul of the man.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-28-2008 5:19 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-29-2008 12:43 PM Recon3rd has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 102 of 194 (462021)
03-29-2008 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by Recon3rd
03-29-2008 8:03 AM


Re: Souls changing
Do you believe we were created in Gods image?
I suppose. But I'm not really sure what that means, 'image'. Image suggests something visual. Do you think god has eyeballs?
The soul is what makes us who we are, all the qualities you posses comes from your soul, it's your personality it's what distinguishes you from your neighbor. The death of the body doesn't destroy what the spirit created, our soul defines who we are as men.
To me, it seems like my body has a big effect on my soul.
It {the soul} does {change} to the extent that the body no longer has an influence over it. The soul of the spirit man now walks according to his spirit.
But without my body, my soul will 'behave' differently.
When someone dies people will say things like, he was a good man he always helped whom ever he could, he was a good husband and good father and so on. They aren't talking about his body but his soul.
I'm not so sure about that.
What if they had described him as a really horny man... Being horny comes from your body, not your spirit. THe soul of the horny man with no body would no longer be horny anymore.
Our soul, which is influenced by our body and our spirit makes the determination of whats right and wrong. You don't miss the body you miss the person who lived in it, the soul of the man.
When a hot chick drops her pants and bends over in front of me, its not my soul that effects my behavior.
When somebody starts a fight, its not my soul that effects my behavior.
THe soul is the combination of the body and spirit, so when the body is no longer, the soul has to at least change. It has lost the influence of the body.
Genesis says that man became a living soul when the spirit joined the body. When the body is lost, man is no longer a living soul. But is it that man is no longer a soul anymore, or just not a living one?
The Bible seems unclear on that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Recon3rd, posted 03-29-2008 8:03 AM Recon3rd has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by Recon3rd, posted 03-30-2008 7:45 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied
 Message 106 by IamJoseph, posted 04-18-2008 11:29 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Recon3rd
Member (Idle past 5842 days)
Posts: 35
Joined: 03-01-2008


Message 103 of 194 (462071)
03-30-2008 7:45 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by New Cat's Eye
03-29-2008 12:43 PM


Re: Souls changing
Recon3rd writes:
Do you believe we were created in Gods image?
Catholic Scientist writes:
I suppose. But I'm not really sure what that means, 'image'. Image suggests something visual. Do you think god has eyeballs?
Image also suggests, form, appearance and semblance. Since God is a Spirit; God is a Spirit (John 4:24) the image must be in His make up. Three beings in one as are we. Do I think God has eye balls? Well God the son, Jesus did, does God the Father and God the Holy Spirit have eye balls? Maybe eyes but balls I don't know.
Recon3rd writes:
The soul is what makes us who we are, all the qualities you posses comes from your soul, it's your personality it's what distinguishes you from your neighbor. The death of the body doesn't destroy what the spirit created, our soul defines who we are as men.
Catholic Scientist writes:
To me, it seems like my body has a big effect on my soul.
The body does effect the soul and since the body is just a body of sin and death, the spirit also effects the soul and it lets the soul know when it's listening to our flesh and not to God. So our body and spirit both effect our souls.
Recon3rd writes:
When someone dies people will say things like, he was a good man he always helped whom ever he could, he was a good husband and good father and so on. They aren't talking about his body but his soul.
Catholic Scientist writes:
I'm not so sure about that.
What if they had described him as a really horny man... Being horny comes from your body, not your spirit. THe soul of the horny man with no body would no longer be horny anymore.
Exactly. When our born of God spirit is released from it's home, our soul is no longer influenced by our flesh.
Recon3rd writes:
Our soul, which is influenced by our body and our spirit makes the determination of whats right and wrong. You don't miss the body you miss the person who lived in it, the soul of the man.
Catholic Scientist writes:
When a hot chick drops her pants and bends over in front of me, its not my soul that effects my behavior.
When somebody starts a fight, its not my soul that effects my behavior.
THe soul is the combination of the body and spirit, so when the body is no longer, the soul has to at least change. It has lost the influence of the body.
Genesis says that man became a living soul when the spirit joined the body. When the body is lost, man is no longer a living soul. But is it that man is no longer a soul anymore, or just not a living one?
The Bible seems unclear on that.
When that hot chick drops em and you're drooling, it is your soul that effects your behavior because you have a choice to either listen to your flesh or your spirit. When someone starts a fight it's the soul who decides if it should react to the fight or ignore it.
The soul is stuck in between the flesh and the spirit, so when the flesh is dead and we (spirit) are released from the body of death that body we lived in no longer has any influence over us. We are free.
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (Gen 2:7)
After God made mans body He brought Him to life by breathing the "breath of life" or a spirit into him. It's at that point the man becomes a living soul and not a robot. When the body dies the soul doesn't. When a woman gives birth and she dies does the baby die also? The woman (body) gave life to the baby, if the woman (body) dies does the baby (soul) die? Of course not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-29-2008 12:43 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by Grizz, posted 03-30-2008 10:02 AM Recon3rd has not replied

  
Grizz
Member (Idle past 5471 days)
Posts: 318
Joined: 06-08-2007


Message 104 of 194 (462084)
03-30-2008 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by Recon3rd
03-30-2008 7:45 AM


Re: Souls changing
After God made mans body He brought Him to life by breathing the "breath of life" or a spirit into him. It's at that point the man becomes a living soul and not a robot. When the body dies the soul doesn't. When a woman gives birth and she dies does the baby die also? The woman (body) gave life to the baby, if the woman (body) dies does the baby (soul) die? Of course not.
This dualistic philosophy is a very late arrival and did not represent the eschatological beliefs of traditional Judaism prior to Hellenization. The Tribes of this period were not dualist - they thought of a Spirit that animated a body rather than a body enclosing a Soul.
Spirit was simply that which animated man and separated him from beast. When God 'breathed life into man', he implanted his image, his spirit. The Spirit was always 'His Image'. It belonged to God, and had nothing to do with an individual person
Nothing that belonged to an individual survived the death of the body - there was no idea of a heaven where a soul identified with the individual continued on. If you talked to a Traditional Jew of this period about the idea of a Soul and an afterlife for the Soul, they would simply look at you funny. For the traditional Jew, the body simply returned to the dust -- From dust you came and to dust you shall return.
The form of Dualism you are referring to is entirely Greek in origin and this view of human nature did not exist in early Jewish circles. It wasn't until the infusion of Greek philosophy and the subsequent Hellenization of Jews in the Diaspora that this idea took form. Although it is the Hellenistic tradition that dominates today, there were and still are Traditional Jews who do not see it this way and hold to the classical monist view of human existence. There are beliefs about the Resurrection of the individual at a future time, but essentially when your body dies, you die with it. The Spirit goes nowhere. It simply was God's presence in Man and remains God's.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Recon3rd, posted 03-30-2008 7:45 AM Recon3rd has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by IamJoseph, posted 04-18-2008 11:56 AM Grizz has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 105 of 194 (462159)
03-31-2008 7:53 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Recon3rd
03-28-2008 8:14 AM


Re: 3 in 1
How do you change colors like that on this forum?
That I could use.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Recon3rd, posted 03-28-2008 8:14 AM Recon3rd has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by iano, posted 04-18-2008 4:46 PM jaywill has replied

  
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