From ROB:
Straggler:
Any hypothesis that can be empiricaly tested by means of prediction and verification is potentially scientific at least in principle.
So if Jesus returned in the flesh, that would be verification, and then we would know that the Bible was scientific?
Doesn’t that make the 2nd coming of Christ scientific if He returns in the empirical flesh and is predicted to do so?
Straggler:
If an alien civilisation formed life on Earth then somewhere in the universe it is at least possible that there is empirical evidence of this.
Do you mean like the existence of said ”created life on earth’ and the mysterious digital code of DNA? Or do you mean His 1st coming in the empirical flesh?
Straggler:
If this alien civilisation designed life and then 'seeded' it here on Earth and elsewhere as the paper you cite is suggesting then logically we can predict that there is life elsewhere in the universe that is derived from the same basic building blocks and design mechanisms as life on Earth.
We would only need proof of these aliens in some manifest material way then right?
Straggler:
This would be a prediction borne of the logical consequences of the hypothesis in question. This is, in principle, empirically verifiable.
The hard part would be getting people to believe; especially if the aliens were trying to save us from our own immoral tendencies to destroy ourselves. A lot of people would reject that and maintain that they are in complete control of themselves.
Straggler:
If we were to find evidence of an advanced alien civilisation that existed billions of years ago and life in other parts of the universe that was based on the same DNA basis as life as we know it -
THEN there would be scientific evidence in favor of the hypothesis.
NOT conclusive verification necessarily but evidence all the same.
So the alien life would have to be like
us . with DNA?
Like Jesus was?
That’s an interesting scientific principle that I would not have thought of .
Straggler:
It is all about deriving the logical consequences of a theory, making preedictions and then verifying or refuting them empirically. This is how science works.
Yes, that is how prophecy of the incarnation of God works, and then the fulfillment of the fleshly incarnation . yes!
Straggler:
The alien design hypothesis is at least potentially scientfic in principle (I didn't say it was likley or even possible in practise)
We would at least need some reports of this alien visitor having been here and coming in the flesh where people could speak with Him, and touch Him. I mean if the proof came in the past, what scientific historical tests could we use to make sure the story was valid?
Straggler:
An omnipotent omniscient supernatural God that abracadras things into and out of existence is empirically untestable and as such can never be a scientific explanation for anything.
Which is what makes Christianity so unique, that He is Lord both of Heaven (the invisible) and earth (the material).
Who would be crazy and mindless enough to advocate some invisible sky God?
John 8:23 But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.
John 18:36 Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world .
1John 4:2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
2John 1:7 Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
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Look at the next verse . the communion is not only a celebration of His life and sacrifice, but a material symbol of the reality of His coming in the flesh and in time.
John 6:53 Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
Those who do not accept this do not believe in the ”real’ spiritual and empirical Christ.
Mark 14:53-65
53 They took Jesus to the high priest, and all the chief priests, elders and teachers of the law came together. 54 Peter followed him at a distance, right into the courtyard of the high priest. There he sat with the guards and warmed himself at the fire. 55 The chief priests and the whole Sanhedrin were looking for evidence against Jesus so that they could put him to death, but they did not find any. 56 Many testified falsely against him, but their statements did not agree. 57 Then some stood up and gave this false testimony against him: 58 "We heard him say, 'I will destroy this man-made temple and in three days will build another, not made by man.'" 59 Yet even then their testimony did not agree. 60 Then the high priest stood up before them and asked Jesus, "Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?" 61 But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer. Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?" 62
"I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven." 63 The high priest tore his clothes. "Why do we need any more witnesses?" he asked. 64 "You have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?" They all condemned him as worthy of death. 65 Then some began to spit at him; they blindfolded him, struck him with their fists, and said, "Prophesy!" And the guards took him and beat him.
John 10:17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life--only to take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."
John 3:14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,
John 8:28 So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me.
John 14:9 Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
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