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Author Topic:   Frozen Tropical Animals
DC85
Member (Idle past 380 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 61 of 70 (44912)
07-03-2003 2:30 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Percy
06-17-2003 1:42 PM


thiis from alittle earleir in the topic
from you and the Others who said
Under Modern Classification Dinosaurs WHERE not Reptiles But a group Called Dinosaura birds also(most agree) belong in this group.
now back to the main Topic man 10 years........... those poor animals never got to rest huh? (sorry had to say it)
Oh yes you are right About one thing though the arctic regins where warm at one time about 100 million years ago and more
[This message has been edited by DC85, 07-03-2003]

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mark24
Member (Idle past 5195 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 62 of 70 (44933)
07-03-2003 6:33 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by DC85
07-03-2003 2:30 AM


DC85,
To be fair, under the cladistic classification system, there are no reptiles at all.
Mark

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by DC85, posted 07-03-2003 2:30 AM DC85 has not replied

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John
Inactive Member


Message 63 of 70 (44944)
07-03-2003 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by mark24
07-03-2003 6:33 AM


quote:
To be fair, under the cladistic classification system, there are no reptiles at all.
Can you explain that a bit?
------------------
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 Message 62 by mark24, posted 07-03-2003 6:33 AM mark24 has replied

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mark24
Member (Idle past 5195 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 64 of 70 (44968)
07-03-2003 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by John
07-03-2003 9:29 AM


John,
Under the cladistic classification system a named node includes everything above it. If mammals & birds evolved from "reptiles", then it stands to reason, under cladistical rules, that these are reptiles too! Happily, it ain't so. So, the clade that starts with the reptiles is called amniota (excluding amphibians, not that they exist either), meaning "reptiles", mammals & birds are all amniotes. It seems reasonable to me that reptiles after bird divergence could be called reptiles, since it is now a monophyletic clade, but reptiles before that are basal amniotes. In truth , the "reptiles" after bird divergence would be named after the first node after that, but I have a sneaky feeling it's not reptilia.
It doesn't seem right, does it? It just means we have to adjust our thinking a bit, it is actually a much more sensible system.
Mark
------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.
[This message has been edited by mark24, 07-03-2003]

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DC85
Member (Idle past 380 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 65 of 70 (44985)
07-03-2003 1:11 PM


yes its true ,mammels ,birds, and Dionsaur Evolved from Reptiles. however. that doesn't mean they are at all. Ok what are called "mammel like Reptiles" are Also thought not to be reptiles either they have changed Enough to be able to have their own as have dinosaurs and Mammels. the Reason birds are Considered Dinosaurs. is Because they haven't changed Enough to really leave the group. Birds are Basicly a chain off of Theropoda although its hard to Place them Exactly its Easy to tell the have ALOT in common with this Familly. and if dinosaurs are Warm blooded(which ALOT believe now and alot of things point to it) Birds would fit Extremly well in this Famlily. But Mammels on the other hand have had around 3x the time to change. from their group. if you can make out what I am saying.

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by mark24, posted 07-03-2003 6:20 PM DC85 has not replied

mark24
Member (Idle past 5195 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 66 of 70 (45000)
07-03-2003 6:20 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by DC85
07-03-2003 1:11 PM


DC85,
the Reason birds are Considered Dinosaurs. is Because they haven't changed Enough to really leave the group.
It isn't because birds haven't changed enough to not be considered dinosaurs, they have under the Linnean system. And even under the cladistic system they form a monophyletic group branching from the therapods, meaning they are no longer basal theropods, but aves in their own right.
A point to note that under the latter system, any descendents of birds will always be 1/ birds, 2/ therapods, & 3/ dinosaurs, etc. even if they evolve into small squidgy things that live under your toilet seat. It is their relationship to other living things & the branching pattern & order that defines what things are called. Once a node is named, EVERYTHING that descends from that branch node bears its name, there may be subsequent branche(s), in which case the organisms that follow will bear two names etc. This is why we are tetrapods, amniotes, mammals, primates, homo, sapiens all at the same time. There are lots of branch nodes that we, & all other organisms bear the name of.
Mark
------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

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 Message 65 by DC85, posted 07-03-2003 1:11 PM DC85 has not replied

wj
Inactive Member


Message 67 of 70 (45016)
07-03-2003 11:29 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by wj
06-25-2003 12:37 AM


Back to the main purpose of the thread.
quote:
Buz, where is your evidence for tropical animals frozen in arctic ice as you've asserted?
You've found time to participate in other threads, usually with an equal absence of supporting evidence.
Time to put up or shut up.

This message is a reply to:
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nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 68 of 70 (45060)
07-04-2003 9:01 AM


C'mon, Buz, be a man and admit you made a mistake, for goodness sake!
"Pride goeth before a fall."
------------------
"Evolution is a 'theory', just like gravity. If you don't like it, go jump off a bridge."

NeilUnreal
Inactive Member


Message 69 of 70 (45070)
07-04-2003 10:56 AM


For the longest time, the title of this thread kept me thinking it should be in the "Cool Summer Recipes" forum.
-Neil

Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 70 of 70 (45071)
07-04-2003 11:24 AM


Closing This Thread
Hi, all!
Either Buzz has forgotten this thread, or he's ignoring it. Either way, Buzz has apparently elected not to defend his statement, and so I guess people are free to draw whatever conclusions they like. I'm closing this thread. Buzz can post to the too fast closure of threads thread if he wishes to resume discussion.
------------------
--Percy
   EvC Forum Administrator

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