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Author Topic:   As I was saying before I was so rudely interrupted...re: NEWS FLASH:The 16 Year Plan.
jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 1 of 10 (448630)
01-14-2008 1:33 PM


In NEWS FLASH:The 16 Year Plan. I posted a fictitious news article:
WorldDailyNetReport: By Dee-Marie Urban 01.13.08, 9:45 AM ET --- In an unprecedented move, Hillary Clinton and Barak Obama have announced an end to their independent campaigns. Instead they have announced that they will join forces to present a ticket based on long term planning for the future of America. The plan dubbed "America Reborn" will see Senator Clinton and Senator Obama alternate as Lead Project America Mentor, serving as President for four years and then standing for Vice President for the next four.
"This for the first time since FDR will place one team of Project Managers guiding the country with a view to long term goals and true security for every American. No longer will US Policy be short term "watch the Quarterly Reports" in Nature. We want to address the real security issues, assuring every American has access to Health Care, freedom from poverty, safety in their old age and a hope for the future."
Senator Clinton will serve the first term as President and has agreed to stand as Vice-President during the 2012 election, Clinton to stand as President in the 2016 election and Obama to stand for President during the final Quadrannual election.
/more to follow/
When read in connection with the thread title, "NEWS FLASH:The 16 Year Plan.", I had hoped folk would realize that the subject was long term versus short term planning.
In the US, national planning has increasingly become very short term in nature. The emphasis seems to be on getting results within the term of the elected official voting on the project as opposed to long term planning for the future of the US and all of our citizens. We are faced with a VISION that is two year, four year or at most six year downstream. Finding support for things that may not show results until 25 or 50 years in the future is increasingly difficult.
The question is, how can we as a Nation work to change the model from a short term Quarterly Reposts based on to a long term future one?
How can we change the emphasis on security from Terrorism to the welfare of individual citizens?
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
Edited by jar, : miss ing

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Replies to this message:
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AdminBuzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 10 (448657)
01-14-2008 7:01 PM


Thread copied to the As I was saying before I was so rudely interrupted...re: NEWS FLASH:The 16 Year Plan. thread in the Proposed New Topics forum, this copy of the thread has been closed.

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 3 of 10 (448672)
01-14-2008 7:29 PM


Topic reopened
"Coffee House" topics do not need to go through the PNT process.
Adminnemooseus

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It really helps moderators figure out if a topic is disintegrating because of general misbehavior versus someone in particular if the originally non-misbehaving members kept it that way. When everyone is prickly and argumentative and off-topic and personal then it's just too difficult to tell. We have neither infinite time to untie the Gordian knot, nor the wisdom of Solomon.
There used to be a comedian who presented his ideas for a better world, and one of them was to arm everyone on the highway with little rubber dart guns. Every time you see a driver doing something stupid, you fire a little dart at his car. When a state trooper sees someone driving down the highway with a bunch of darts all over his car he pulls him over for being an idiot.
Please make it easy to tell you apart from the idiots. Source

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 10 (448681)
01-14-2008 7:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by jar
01-14-2008 1:33 PM


Planning for the future
In the US, national planning has increasingly become very short term in nature. The emphasis seems to be on getting results within the term of the elected official voting on the project as opposed to long term planning for the future of the US and all of our citizens.
Because there is so much polarization in the country, coupled by the fact that terms are limited to 8 years in office, its a battle to keep any implementations the same during the term of the next elected official.
I think all presidents look for something that is going to stick in the long term. It doesn't always happen that way, especially if the next incumbent subverts everything the previous one worked for while in office.
The question is, how can we as a Nation work to change the model from a short term Quarterly Reposts based on to a long term future one?
How can we change the emphasis on security from Terrorism to the welfare of individual citizens?
A fantastic question being that I pay in to something that I will never see. There is no government plan that will determine how I will survive after retirement. I have do that myself, which suits me just fine.
Planning for the long-term is fine and good, but sometimes more expedient matters need to be taken care of first.

“First dentistry was painless, then bicycles were chainless, and carriages were horseless, and many laws enforceless. Next cookery was fireless, telegraphy was wireless, cigars were nicotineless, and coffee caffeineless. Soon oranges were seedless, the putting green was weedless, the college boy was hatless, the proper diet -- fatless. New motor roads are dustless, the latest steel is rustless, our tennis courts are sodless, our new religion -- Godless” -Arthur Guiterman

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nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 5 of 10 (448692)
01-14-2008 8:00 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by jar
01-14-2008 1:33 PM


In the US, national planning has increasingly become very short term in nature.
I'm not sure that's entirely correct.
As I see it, Reagan and Dubya both had long term plans. Their plan was to give big tax cuts to the rich, bankrupt the nation, destroy the economy, and allow the moneyed interests to take over.

Let's end the political smears

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 6 of 10 (448796)
01-15-2008 9:37 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by nwr
01-14-2008 8:00 PM


and look! they're succeeding! too bad they had that nasty 8 years of clinton to deal with, or they'd have managed to drive out all the poor and the coloreds.

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teen4christ
Member (Idle past 5799 days)
Posts: 238
Joined: 01-15-2008


Message 7 of 10 (448923)
01-15-2008 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by jar
01-14-2008 1:33 PM


When I saw this thread, I had to ask myself "is a long term plan even practical at this point in the history of our civilization?"
The rate of change of our culture and technology is faster than ever before. In fact, I think at this point in time we change faster than any civilization that had ever existed.
The Romans invested hugh resources and time into their aquaducts and they were able to use them for hundreds of years. But if you look at today's society, last year's fashion is this year's out-of-date fashion for losers. Almost everything you invest in will be out-of-date by this time next year. The resulting mentality is "why waste vast amounts of resources and time into this today if tomorrow's technology will solve the problem?"
Besides, long term plans usually don't show results nearly fast enough for the planner to be embraced. Our current culture values the here and the now much more than the there and the then. People want to see results right away.

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nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 8 of 10 (448944)
01-15-2008 6:34 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by teen4christ
01-15-2008 5:58 PM


quote:
Besides, long term plans usually don't show results nearly fast enough for the planner to be embraced. Our current culture values the here and the now much more than the there and the then. People want to see results right away.
That's the problem.
I've worked in business all my life, and there's a saying about having a vision for the future, no matter if it is a vision for your current project, the next 5 years, or for your own retirement 50 years from now:
Without a vision and a plan to implement it, you will probably accomplish something or get somewhere, but it won't likely be what you wanted to accomplish or where you wanted to be.

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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 9 of 10 (450654)
01-23-2008 2:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by jar
01-14-2008 1:33 PM


A System of Mediocrity / Smoke and Mirror campaigns
I think the system in the U.S. (and perhaps in democracy in general) is such that we won't get either profoundly bad or profoundly good leadership. Of course, IMO, it seems that the power of the neo-con movement has shown that to be wrong (see Galbraith quote in "signature").
I've been thinking about how, despite the modern capability of distributing information, far to little good information is distributed. Advertising in general, and political advertising in specific are exercises in "smoke and mirrors". And that is what is required to be elected.
I had the idea of there being a website that listed out all the issues that could be thought off. Candidates could then list their positions on those issues.
But imagine the issue of taxes. A high quality leadership potention candidate posts that tax increases are need (that's what I think). But such is political suicide.
There's a name for a candidate that presents honest, straight forward information about his/her good but painful ideas. It's "election loser".
It's far easier to sell friendly but bad ideas that it is to sell painful but good ideas.
Or something like that.
Moose

Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith
"Nixon was a professional politician, and I despised everything he stood for ” but if he were running for president this year against the evil Bush-Cheney gang, I would happily vote for him." - Hunter S. Thompson
"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose

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Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 10 of 10 (450657)
01-23-2008 3:36 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Minnemooseus
01-23-2008 2:49 AM


Re: A System of Mediocrity / Smoke and Mirror campaigns
Hi Minnemooseus, I quite agree with your analysis. It is the same over on this side of the pond. Politicians know full well that some radical changes are needed, not least in the areas of taxation and climate change. The problem is that they are paralysed with fear of alienating voters and losing that next election. The end result is that we have political parties whose only ambition is to get elected. When they get into power, they don't know what to do about it. It's all reminiscent of the various game theory problems.
Political discourse has become hindered by a "You can't handle the truth!" mentality amongst politicians, they're convinced that we are too selfish and short-sighted to be able to accept tough choices. Thus they say less and less of substance. In the case of the UK, this has pushed all the parties into the centre ground. I think that if a more honest and open attitude were taken and politicians really argued in favour of unpalatable but necessary measures, more useful work might get done.
I am optimistic that people are not as venal and blinkered as it is supposed by our leaders. Whenever there is a record low turnout at an election, the politicians blame apathy, but I don't know anyone who is apathetic about schools, hospitals, crime etc. People don't vote because they are tired being fed bullshit by useless leaders. Perhaps a little more honesty and some genuinely daring proposals might help alleviate this problem. All I know is that the status quo is neither justifiable or sustainable.
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Put a couple of blank lines in there.

Mutate and Survive

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