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Author | Topic: The Evolution of God (Before Genesis 1:1) | |||||||||||||||||||||||
NOT JULIUS Member (Idle past 4504 days) Posts: 219 From: Rome Joined: |
quote:I believe I said that God is made up of all sorts of energy AND he can use these forces anyway he likes it. quote: I am not a scientist, but I believe that science can explain these forces taking them one force at a time. It has not come up yet with an explanation of: 'what if these forces were combined together and intead of destroying its other, instead of just holding up these forces ( like the black holes) --it would EVOLVE into something that has intelligence, can act on its own'? If scientist won't consider this possibility, then you have your blinders.
quote: I believe that your premise is correct, but your conclusion is degrading both to men and God. Why not: If this is the case then God has allowed himself to be revealed to men more fully, and men have greatly improved their intelligence?
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NOT JULIUS Member (Idle past 4504 days) Posts: 219 From: Rome Joined: |
quote:We can always try, can't we? Think about God as power according to Gen 1:1, Bible in Today's English, 1966 (?) Catholic Edition (BTE) Now consider also Isaiah 40:26, BTE, which says, "WHO [as in person] CREATED [an act of a person] the stars you see? ... His power is so great--no one of them is ever missing." In short these passages, at least in my understanding, says that God is a person--not made of flesh and blood--made up of energy and forces, AND has the capacity to use these forces any way he chooses. Sorry, I didn't mean to be preachy. I just wanted you to have a mental picture of what God is made up as a person,and his power to use these forces. In our physical world, you and I can use our hairs for example to make a useful wig!
quote: I didn't see a big change. But, anyways even if I did, we can always change , can't we?
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NOT JULIUS Member (Idle past 4504 days) Posts: 219 From: Rome Joined: |
quote: If you for example a good doctor--being made of flesh and blood--uses PART of your flesh to say transplant it to your kid who is sick, is it saying you are using you? Or, is it like using PART of your flesh to heal your child? Is there no information in it?
quote:Indeed, sometimes kids asks "what ifs" that at first seem absurd but later on makes sense and used by adults to solve a problem. Agree? quote: Perhaps you misunderstood me. I did not say that if the nature of God could later on be explained by science, then "it would be degrading to God" . What I suggested was for you to change your conclusion to: 'then God allowed himself to be more fully revealed to man, and /or man's intelligence has improved.' Sorry, but I seem to sense something wrong in your views. It appears to me that everytime science discovers something then it "degrades" that discovery to something like mud and slime? Correct me if I was wrong.
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NOT JULIUS Member (Idle past 4504 days) Posts: 219 From: Rome Joined: |
Jar,
Thanks for giving your thoughts on this post. But, I hope I won't offend you with this question: Do you hate God, or the possibility that he will reveal more of himself to mankind through science ? kind regards,Great J
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NOT JULIUS Member (Idle past 4504 days) Posts: 219 From: Rome Joined: |
quote: Is the use of "power" in Gen 1:1, BTE, to start creation akin to political power? Or is it more akin to use of an awesome energy force?
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NOT JULIUS Member (Idle past 4504 days) Posts: 219 From: Rome Joined: |
quote: Careful with that. I heard one named his dog according to that name. Next morning the dog was found dead. He then got a puppy and named it just the same. Next morning the man was found dead beside the puppy. Superstition ? May be. Coincidence? May be.
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NOT JULIUS Member (Idle past 4504 days) Posts: 219 From: Rome Joined: |
quote: BTW, Gen 1:1, BTE, was cross-referred to Act 2:1-4 where it mentioned that the house was filled by a strong wind and the occupants were filled (annointed) with the holy spirit in the form of tongues of fire. That appears to me to be awesome energy force.
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NOT JULIUS Member (Idle past 4504 days) Posts: 219 From: Rome Joined: |
quote:Just kidding. My turn to laugh :=) quote: Let me try a syllogism.P1: One who is natural can not know one who is super-natural unless the latter choose to reveal himself to the former. P2: Super-natural being choose to reveal himself to natural being through science. Conclusion: Therefore, natural being can know super-natural being through science.
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NOT JULIUS Member (Idle past 4504 days) Posts: 219 From: Rome Joined: |
quote: Too bad the anemometer was not yet invented at that time. But what about the witnesses who had opposing views of the power given to them? If you will recall, the disciples were heckled as drunk with wine. On the other hand, 120 experienced that power. No one disputed though that strong gust of wind (the manifestation of the spirit, the energy force) that filled the house.
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NOT JULIUS Member (Idle past 4504 days) Posts: 219 From: Rome Joined: |
Sidelined,
quote: I don't quite get your point. Can you explain further? May be my brain went on sleep mode after looking at Jar's avatar. :=)
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NOT JULIUS Member (Idle past 4504 days) Posts: 219 From: Rome Joined: |
quote: I believe the account in Acts 2:1-13 (I'm digging into my sandwich no bible on hand ) says that a strong wind came from heaven and filled the house, AND tounges of fire descended on each of the disciples. So, when the sound ( of that strong wind)occured the multitude came together AND were bewildered because they each heard their own language being spoken by the disciples. Unable, to explain the phenomenon some accused them of being drunk. The point?a) holy spirit is energy--all sorts of energy, from fire, from wind, etc. Not only ordinary energy but one that can impart intelligence as in ability to instanteously speak foreign tounges. b) God is spirit or energy--not flesh and blood. He is not only made up energy ( a.k.a. spirit) but he can use that energy anyway he wants. c) that event was witnessed by opposing parties, and not one of them disputed the phenomena. d)unable to explain the whole phenomena, one party accused the other of being drunk. Now, do they also have instruments that measure almost simultaneously the occurence of strong wind, AND the tounges of fire, AND the ability to instantaneously speak foreign language?
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NOT JULIUS Member (Idle past 4504 days) Posts: 219 From: Rome Joined: |
Hi Ringo,
I follow this rule in interpretation: "plain words, plain meaning, unless resulting interpretation results in absurdity or unreasonableness" you said:
quote:However the passage you quoted says, quote:I think the plain meaning--no need of reconstruction--is there was a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind and it filled all the house. Sounds an awesome energy force to me. You said:quote:That is how you understood my statements. But, what I said was spirit=energy. I cited Genesis 1:1,Isaiah 40:26, Acts 2:1-13 BTE, as my source. I never said measurable. Did I? you said: quote: My familiarity is of no value. What is important is what the account said. I guess it said that when the holy spirit--that powerful energy /force--from God descended upon the disciples, they talked and their listeners were able to discern that they ( the disciples) were talking in their ( the listeners') tongues or langguage. Plain meaning, right ? you said:quote: I believe there was no contradiction. Here is why.1. Both parties did not dispute the OCCURENCE of the phenomena of the strong wind and the sudden ability of the disciples to speak foreign tongues. 2. What they could not explain /or agree was the CAUSE(s) of these phenomena. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Edited by Great J, : No reason given. Edited by Great J, : No reason given.
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NOT JULIUS Member (Idle past 4504 days) Posts: 219 From: Rome Joined: |
quote: Yes, or no please. If a non-moving thing like a house, a chair, etc, moves was there a force or energy applied or none? Follow up question: why did the writer write rushing mighty wind and filled the house if there was no movement in that house at all?
quote: Perhaps you did not check my original post. My reference on Genesis 1:1-2 was BTE where it is specifically mentioned that spirit of God=Power of God. BTW, the Hebrew word "Ruach" is translated "spirit" in English. And Bible translators agree that spirit = power. Power = energy force. Of course, you can not find the word "energy" in these bible passages because remember it was written long time ago, when the word "energy" was not yet known.If the bible writer(s) would have used "energy" the reader would say DUH? So, they had to use language that was understandable to them at that time: power=energy. As regards Acts 2:1-3, it was just a fulfillment of Jesus command to his disciples, after he was resurrected. He said 'go to the city (Jerusalem) and wait for the POWER on high to be given to you'. ( Luke 24:49, BTE). As regards, Isaiah 40:26, your quoted text mentions "his might", "he is strong in POWER". Write that as 'he has strong ENERGY, and you will have rabid bible critics howling: 'see Isaiah was written in the 40's ! or about the time the word "energy" came to being. Oh by the way, do the stars release power ( energy) or not? If yes, where did this come from according to Isaiah 40:26?
quote: Are you saying that speaking in foreign tongue does not require intelligence?
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NOT JULIUS Member (Idle past 4504 days) Posts: 219 From: Rome Joined: |
Ringo,
quote:A FORCE nonetheless. quote: A rushing mighty wind that filled the house, and no movement at all. Can you believe that?
quote: Or, the footnote is an aid to undertanding the particular word. And, that somebody's opinion by the way, is just from the masters of their own field--the bible scholars/ translators. If you use the theasaurus on your word document, and type the word "POWER" it will give you several synonyms among which are: "FORCE", and "ENERGY". The Bible writers, by the way, did not study physics. They observed that in their physical world if something moves it must have been caused by Power. And, the word "power" means "ENERGY" or "FORCE" in our modern language. Again, check a respectable thesaurus.
quote: I thought man has free will, the right to say yes or no. And, I really thought that man's intelligence is different from an ass. If you don't agree, then we'll never be on the same page. Edited by Great J, : No reason given.
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NOT JULIUS Member (Idle past 4504 days) Posts: 219 From: Rome Joined: |
Jar,
quote: If we are on the same page, I heard that scientists are tapping on this as alternative form of ENERGY that could be used to cook food. :=) :=). How do you guys paste an emoticon on this?
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