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Author Topic:   Barriers to Understanding why God cannot be Proven
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4189 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 16 of 25 (430317)
10-24-2007 2:22 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Am5n
08-12-2007 4:54 PM


1.Why cannot we prove God to be unprovable?
You cannot prove God to be unprovable from a scientific standpoint, because Creation Scientist have proven there is a God and it is hard to prove that God doesn't exist.
Naturalist,Humanist, and Evolutionist give people an excuse, to why they don't believe in God. Evolution evidence is NOT scientific evidence, because science must include Faith in God(It is true that Naturalism,Humanism,and Evolution, cannot be considered apart of Science, which Creationism for its faith in God, has always been the only true reason for Science.)
2.If it is proven that God cannot be proven, what weight will that have on God's existence?
I doubt that would ever happen. You can't prove something to be unproven, because its already been proven!
3.Do "these believers" need proof to believe?
Science cannot be considered true science without God. You need God in science, Thats the only truth in science. without God, it's not considered a part of Science. For something to be considered apart of science, this would include having Faith in God, which is also called a persons Belief. It's that simple.
where is your source for the above statements?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Am5n, posted 08-12-2007 4:54 PM Am5n has not replied

  
Am5n 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5901 days)
Posts: 106
From: New York City, New York, United States
Joined: 02-21-2007


Message 17 of 25 (430353)
10-24-2007 7:25 PM


Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection
"The support which I receive from Germany is my chief ground for hoping that our views will ultimately prevail."
source: The Life and Letters of Charles Darwin, Vol. 2 pg.270
"the purity of the racial blood should be guarded, so that the best types of human beings may be preserved and thus we should render possible a more noble evolution of humanity itself." -Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf
other people who agreed with Darwin's Theory:
Thomas Malthus
Francis Galton
Margaret Sanger
"Three generations of imbeciles are enough"
source: Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., Buck v. Bell, 1927
Adolf Hitler uses the word "evolution" in Mein Kampf, though the English translation of evolution, is replaced with the word "development" in Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf.
Adolf Hitler felt slaughtering the lives of innocent "JEWS" was necessary.
"The Jews formed a sub-human counter race, predestined by their biological heritage to evil, just as the Nordic race was destined for nobility."
source:
Adolf Hitler, quoted in L.H. Gann, "Adolf Hitler,The Complete Totalitarian", The Intercollegiate Review, Fall 1985, p.24
PM me if you want some more of my sources....

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by jar, posted 10-24-2007 7:32 PM Am5n has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 18 of 25 (430354)
10-24-2007 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Am5n
10-24-2007 7:25 PM


Try heading towards the topic
What does any of that have to do with the topic in addition to the fact that it is simply more nonsense and misrepresentation?
If you want to bring in Hitler please understand that there are many Hitler quotes that show what he did was done for his Christian beliefs.
Do you really want to go there?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Am5n, posted 10-24-2007 7:25 PM Am5n has not replied

  
Am5n 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5901 days)
Posts: 106
From: New York City, New York, United States
Joined: 02-21-2007


Message 19 of 25 (430357)
10-24-2007 7:45 PM


Questions for Nemesis Juggernaut
Nemesis Juggernaut said, "you can't prove something doesn't exist if it in fact, does not exist."
I see you're in the mood for answering questions NJ!
mind answering these Questions from God:
"Who is this that darkens my counsel with words without knowledge?
Brace yourself like a man;I will question you,and you shall answer me.
"Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation?
Tell me, if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions?
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
On what were its footings set,or who laid its cornerstone-while
the morning stars sang togetherand all the angels shouted for joy?
"Who shut up the sea behind doors when it burst forth from the womb,
when I made the clouds its garment and wrapped it in thick darkness,
when I fixed limits for it and set its doors and bars in place,
when I said, 'This far you may come and no farther;
here is where your proud waves halt'?
"Have you ever given orders to the morning, or shown the dawn its place,that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it?
"Have you journeyed to the springs of the sea or walked in the recesses of the deep?
Have the gates of death been shown to you?
Have you seen the gates of the shadow of death?
Have you comprehended the vast expanses of the earth?
Tell me, if you know all this.
"What is the way to the abode of light?
And where does darkness reside?
Can you take them to their places?
Do you know the paths to their dwellings?
Surely you know, for you were already born!
You have lived so many years!
"Have you entered the storehouses of the snow or seen the storehouses of the hail, which I reserve for times of trouble,for days of war and battle?
What is the way to the place where the lightning is dispersed,
or the place where the east winds are scattered over the earth?
Who cuts a channel for the torrents of rain, and a path for the thunderstorm, to water a land where no man lives, a desert with no one in it, to satisfy a desolate wasteland and make it sprout with grass?
Does the rain have a father?
Who fathers the drops of dew?
From whose womb comes the ice?
Who gives birth to the frost from the heavens when the waters become hard as stone, when the surface of the deep is frozen?
"Can you bind the beautiful Pleiades?
Can you loose the cords of Orion?
Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons
or lead out the Bear with its cubs?
Do you know the laws of the heavens?
Can you set up God's dominion over the earth?
"Can you raise your voice to the clouds and cover yourself with a flood of water?
Do you send the lightning bolts on their way?
Do they report to you, 'Here we are'?
Who endowed the heart with wisdom or gave understanding to the mind?
Who has the wisdom to count the clouds?
Who can tip over the water jars of the heavens when the dust becomes hard and the clods of earth stick together?
"Do you hunt the prey for the lioness and satisfy the hunger of the lions when they crouch in their dens or lie in wait in a thicket?
Who provides food for the raven when its young cry out to God
and wander about for lack of food?
"Do you know when the mountain goats give birth?
Do you watch when the doe bears her fawn?
Do you count the months till they bear?
Do you know the time they give birth?
"Who let the wild donkey go free?
Who untied his ropes?
I gave him the wasteland as his home, the salt flats as his habitat.
He laughs at the commotion in the town; he does not hear a driver's shout. He ranges the hills for his pasture and searches for any green thing.
"Will the wild ox consent to serve you?
Will he stay by your manger at night?
Can you hold him to the furrow with a harness?
Will he till the valleys behind you?
Will you rely on him for his great strength?
Will you leave your heavy work to him?
Can you trust him to bring in your grain and gather it to your threshing floor?
"Do you give the horse his strength or clothe his neck with a flowing mane?
Do you make him leap like a locust, striking terror with his proud snorting?
"Does the hawk take flight by your wisdom and spread his wings toward the south? Does the eagle soar at your command and build his nest on high? "Would you discredit my justice? Would you condemn me to justify yourself? Do you have an arm like God's, and can your voice thunder like his? Who has a claim against me that I must pay?
Everything under heaven belongs to me!
Thank you! Have a nice day!
-ThyShall
Edited by ThyShall, : made some corrections

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by jar, posted 10-24-2007 7:56 PM Am5n has not replied
 Message 21 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-25-2007 7:01 PM Am5n has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 20 of 25 (430359)
10-24-2007 7:56 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Am5n
10-24-2007 7:45 PM


Re: Questions for Thy Shall
Do you plan to post anything on topic?
Edited by jar, : edit subtitle

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Am5n, posted 10-24-2007 7:45 PM Am5n has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 25 (430493)
10-25-2007 7:01 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Am5n
10-24-2007 7:45 PM


Re: Questions for Nemesis Juggernaut
quote:
"you can't prove something doesn't exist if it in fact, does not exist."
I see you're in the mood for answering questions NJ!
mind answering these Questions from God:
If you read my post again, you will clearly see that I am defending God against the silly notion that you prove the non-existence of God.
In other words, if God didn't exist, how could anyone prove that empirically?

"Whatever weakens your reasoning, impairs the tenderness of your conscience, obscures your sense of God, or takes away your relish for spiritual things-- in short, if anything increases the power and the authority of the flesh over the spirit, that to you becomes sin, however good it may be in itself." -Suzanna Wesley

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Am5n, posted 10-24-2007 7:45 PM Am5n has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Am5n, posted 10-25-2007 7:19 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Am5n 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5901 days)
Posts: 106
From: New York City, New York, United States
Joined: 02-21-2007


Message 22 of 25 (430497)
10-25-2007 7:10 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by nator
09-30-2007 9:49 AM


quote:
How is scientific inquiry helped by allowing supernatural explanations for natural phenomena?
Supernatural explanations can help resolve any doubts, that we might "misinterpret" that there is in "FACT" a much more powerful supernatural force at work, therefor why would any "mortal human" doubt all the possibilities of there being a creator? IMHO Many people are hardheaded and ignorant to a point where they put MAN=GOD. I don't know where they get this... but the truth is... we can't make anything... take a sand castle for instance, Who made dirt and gave it, so that everyone can do whatever they want with it?
quote:
If you believe that your God gave you the power to fly, and you jump off a cliff, the Godless science of Physics will, I predict, trump your claim.
I claim there is a God.. The Lord Almighty is The King of Kings and The Lord of Lords.
you claim that Godless science of Physics will trump my claim?
heh.. I beg to differ
"Who has a claim against me that I must pay?
EVERYTHING UNDER HEAVEN BELONGS TO ME!"
-ThyShall

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by nator, posted 09-30-2007 9:49 AM nator has not replied

  
Am5n 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5901 days)
Posts: 106
From: New York City, New York, United States
Joined: 02-21-2007


Message 23 of 25 (430499)
10-25-2007 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Hyroglyphx
10-25-2007 7:01 PM


Re: Questions for Nemesis Juggernaut
quote:
In other words, if God didn't exist, how could anyone prove that empirically?
wow.. now I understand what you mean. lol. ya I was definatly confused on what you were saying.. but now I understand. thank you!
p.s. btw thats why I posted that long reply.. to show you I was confused.. but I just shouldve said, "hey I'm a bit confused on what you posted." but whatever.. whats done is done.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-25-2007 7:01 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-25-2007 8:05 PM Am5n has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 25 (430507)
10-25-2007 8:05 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Am5n
10-25-2007 7:19 PM


Re: Questions for Nemesis Juggernaut
No worries...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Am5n, posted 10-25-2007 7:19 PM Am5n has not replied

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 1593 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 25 of 25 (444351)
12-29-2007 12:00 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jon
08-09-2007 12:05 AM


proof in logic
i cannot say that science will ever prove that God does not exist.
i cannot endorse with proof to which religeon would be God's true doctrine
however, i can say that logically science has failed to explore the very base that all religeons stem from : existance
orgin of life doesnt explain existance.
cosmologist have not offered a better definition in the big bang.
if we look at the scale of the universe, REALLY...look at the scale, then the earth and mankind seem insignificant.
order and chaos and existance: i beleive it is safe to say that no ordered substance can exist on top of chaos. that chaos would destroy any chance of order. yet some scientist are willing to argue and assert that subatomic particles are potentially chaotic. which is funny, since they exist in an ordered structure, namely, an element. so the science is faulty. and has overlooked variables that would explain the behavior of the "apparent" chaos.
so ,before what is, was something ordered. because order came of it.
so before that before that before that, eventually we come to one thing that was. thats existance. it cannot be multiple things, because there would be a "before that"
the concept again, is existance itself was established by "some one thing that was".
this being only one thing means time did not exist, because time is a measure between more than one thing. so this existance was timeless.
i dont beleive that if i put steel plastic and a battery in a box that it would become a computer given time and chance.
since a computer being so simple that mankind made them,yet we can assert only intelligence could make one; then the possibility that the balance of all elements, planetary scale, and energy transfers complimentary for growth lead me to assert: existance was intelligent.
but ok..so only one thing was first, it was timeless, and inteligent..but..how did IT know it was? since it didnt have anyhting but itself to base itself on?
enter faith. faith: action , based on beleif, with certainty of the outcome.
so the law of existance by reason:existance:n. the basis of all things that "are". it was/is the energy that was before all things that are, which was intelligent, and created all that is from itself. based on faith it was. and therefore established the state of "being" or "existing".
refute the logic?

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jon, posted 08-09-2007 12:05 AM Jon has not replied

  
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