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Author | Topic: A passion for music? Share it here | |||||||||||||||||||
Volunteer Junior Member (Idle past 5935 days) Posts: 21 From: Tennessee Joined: |
You haven't gone back to my good old days. I remember a floor model radio in out living room. The whole family sat around listening to President Roosevelts' fire side chats and then tuning in to Bob Hope,Red Skelton,Burns and Allen, The Shadow, Nick Carter, The Lone Ranger and many other great programs. All the while hoping that a tube wouldn't blow before our favorite program was finished. Believe me a young imagination is much better than anything Hollywood can produce. In my minds eye, I had a vivid picture of The Lone Ranger and Silver. I could even see the Shadow and would hide under a blanket upon hearing "the shadow knows what lurks in the minds of men". I just wish kids of today could experience the wonders of making up your own games in the yard and playing with sticks,rocks,the kid next door and your faithful dog.
Sorry about rambling on, I'll stop now but you caused it with your comment. Thank you for jogging my memory.
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kuresu Member (Idle past 2539 days) Posts: 2544 From: boulder, colorado Joined: |
But those rythyms aren't really fundamentally new either. The sounds with the rythym would be new, but not the rythym. That's the problem with "fundamentally new", because it can't just be an extension or continuation of something, or a radically different way of doing something (imo).
That's why electric amplification would be the closest thing I can think of in music. Yes, it's a continuation of amplification (which is really all an instrument does), but does it radically new. All of a sudden, you don't need hollow tubes or boxes to amplify the sounds you're making. I will settle for calling breakbeats new, though.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1493 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
But those rythyms aren't really fundamentally new either. I'm not saying you're wrong, but what's the historic precedent?
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kuresu Member (Idle past 2539 days) Posts: 2544 From: boulder, colorado Joined: |
jazz drumming?
funk drumming? you said it yourself. The breakbeats came from people spinning lps on their turntables with a funk element. what would be interesting to hear would be older breakbeats, seeing as how that guy may not have even been born in the 70s when funk and jazz were being combined.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1493 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
jazz drumming? funk drumming? Hrm, maybe you still don't understand what a breakbeat is. It's when you create the whole rhythm portion of a song from extemporaneous percussion solos as found in jazz and funk performances, sampled and cut. Jazz and funk drumming are not breakbeat, not even close, so I don't see how they can be the historic precursors of breakbeat.
what would be interesting to hear would be older breakbeats I guess you could start with "King of the Beats" by Mantronik, the first use of the so-called "Amen break" that is such a mainstay of breakbeat.
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kuresu Member (Idle past 2539 days) Posts: 2544 From: boulder, colorado Joined: |
Hello funk. That's what is sounds like to me, except they're using different instruments in some cases.
If the fundamentally new thing you're talking about is the rythym, there's your historical basis--funk. But if it's the cutting and sampling you're talking about, that's essentially doing an arrangement (specifically playing several songs as one, where portions are only played. quite common with christmas music I've found), and those are quite old.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1493 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
If the fundamentally new thing you're talking about is the rythym, there's your historical basis--funk. Funk isn't breakbeats, though. How can it be the historic precedent? Maybe I'm just not being clear on what I'm asking, because you're not making any sense to me. Anyway it was just an idle musing; we can drop it.
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kuresu Member (Idle past 2539 days) Posts: 2544 From: boulder, colorado Joined: |
Funk isn't breakbeats, though.
Well sure. Just like Romantic music is not Classical music, and just like jazz isn't blues. And yet Classical and blues are the historical precedents for Romantic music and jazz. Rythymically, funk would be the historical precedent for breakbeats. I'm probably not getting what you're asking, because you're not making any sense to me. It's difficult for me to see how funk can't have influenced breakbeats. ABE:A quick perusal through the wiki article seems to suggest that funk is the basis for breakbeats. That's why rythymically, breakbeats have to come from funk, because those are essentially funk rythyms (yeah, that sounds pretty circular). It also seems as if hip-hop may have something to do with it in some vague way. Edited by kuresu, : No reason given.
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bluescat48 Member (Idle past 4216 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: |
I'm familiar with all of them in fact virtually all artists from the 50's & 60's. Ie The Chords, Penguins, 5 Satins, Flamingos, Turbans, Ivory Joe Hunter, Big Joe Turner, Wilbert Harrison, Johnnie Ray, Gene Chandler, Dee Dee Sharp, Hank Ballard & The Midnighters, Jimmie F Rogers, Etta James, Dion & The Belmonts, The Elegants To name a few more.
There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1493 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
It's difficult for me to see how funk can't have influenced breakbeats. Because funk is like the opposite of breakbeak. Funk percussion is a regular, rhythmic beat, and then in the middle of the song there's a couple measures of the "break", where the percussionist goes off-rhythm to solo. Breakbeats is what you get if you take just that period of the break and make a whole song out of it. It's like making music out of the negative space that surrounds a funk song. I'm not saying that there's no relationship, obviously there is. But breakbeats aren't the natural evolution of funk, the way funk evolved from other genres; they're a quantum leap across the musical space. Without recent precedent, in my view. It's fine if you disagree. Although the thing you mentioned, about electronic amplification of vibrating strings, that was pretty significant, too. And I think we're on the cusp of a similar development, where digital instruments and games like Guitar Hero will usher in an age where people make music on instruments that are designed for easy human use, not forced into certain configurations by the necessities of generating musical sound with physical materials.
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kuresu Member (Idle past 2539 days) Posts: 2544 From: boulder, colorado Joined: |
But funk drum solos do keep a rythmic pattern (not necessarily a strict 4/4 all the way through, but like 4/4 3/4 3/4 4/4 5/4 then repeat). They don't completely drop a rythym, which is what it sounds like you're saying by stating that they go off-rythym.
The breakbeats that I've heard definitely have a continuous rythym (if they didn't, rave wouldn't be so popular for dancing to). So what have they done? Put a solo on perpetual repeat? Or solos? If so, then the breakbeat essentially becomes what twelve bar blues is--a repetitive rythmic pattern. Further, I hear the funk beat in the breakbeat songs (the few I've listened to, at any rate). A new take on an old idea. Digital instruments could be really quite freaky. That would be the next fundamental change in music, so I agree with you there. However, the only way to make a brass instrument easier to play would be to scrap the blowing part (exception--trombones). Getting rid of the need to blow would be a fundamental change for any wind instrument, though, so . . .
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