Lions and natural selection

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Originally posted by redstang281:
Instintively a male lion will kill a litter of baby lions if it happens across them. This allows the mother of the cubs to come into heat faster and allows for the murdering male lion to mate with the female sooner. Also it helps insure that the strongest male lion is passing along his genes.

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Could someone describe by strickly the means of natural selection how a lion could acquire this trait?

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I understand how this trait could continue to exist once it has been aquired, but I am wondering how it could be aquired to start with?

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Example:Generation 1 two lions 2 lioneses.Lions a and b both breed with lioneses c and d.lion a eats lion b`s cubs lion b adopts lion a`s cubs.Generation 2 ten lions ten lioneses.All 20 are offspring of lion a, if selective infanticide is genetic linked to y chromasome all males exhibit said trait....Herein endeth the lesson....

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Originally posted by redstang281:
I think we would all agree as a whole that this process insures the survival of the species. Sure there are some sacrifices along the way, but in the end it all works. The Bible says all things work together for good.

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Actually most of us are saying that this trait serves the individual rather than the species as a whole so no we wouldn`t all agree with you....In the over simplified example of lion a and lion b above the trait doesn`t help the species as a whole lion b may be a *better* lion than a however the trait serves lion a as in the second generation all offspring are his REGARDLESS OF THE RELATIVE FITNESS OF LIONS A AND B.......Herein endeth the lesson....

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Originally posted by redstang281:
If you believe everything evolved from a rock, you'll have to believe the instincts evolved too.

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Hang on did I just miss some new discovery in the field of genetics or is Reds claim that ToE postulates rocks as all lifes common ancestor completely wrong?Red if you are going to debate here at least try not to misrepresent your oponents position, doing so only makes you look like a complete and utter muppet......

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Originally posted by redstang281:
Yes, but the alpha male should breed for more reasons than solely distribting his genes. The alpha male should also be able to provide protection to the new cubs. An old male may still have good genes, but not be strong enough to protect the cubs. I think we both agree It's a very good filter.

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You what?What other reason?Mark was pointing out the problems of the filter, namely the possibility of the most genetically fit animal being suplanted by an interloper of inferior stock if it has advanced to too great an age to defend its alpha position....Hence not a good filter....

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Originally posted by redstang281:
Oh, and BTW even if I *was* wrong about the TOE you better not come on here and attack me for being ignorant of it when many of you on here are completly ignorant of the correct representation of the Bible and even many creationist theories. Seems pretty critical to me.

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Really I thought this was evolution v`s creation not bible study monthly hence precisely the place where I should point out that your idea of what ToE postulates makes you look ridiculous......And which correct representation of the bible would that be? a)That of the single largest christian sect? b)Or the one dogmatically adhered to by a small but vocal minority here in the states?If a) then your bible had better have a picture of an old Polish guy who lives in Rome in it......If b) what makes 40 million smarter than about 3.6 billion?It is critical, if you don`t like it stop posting asinine misstatements of the oppositions position or grow some thicker skin......

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Originally posted by KingPenguin:
1)im gonna be an jerk all the time to you joz, just for saying that last bit.
a)thats a pretty dumb statement, moron!!! b)well gee, were not starving, we read, we go to school, we go to college, we have jobs, we have time to devote ourselves to faith in Christ, we dont have diseases; were america, you should know that were better than everyone. The bible is subject to your own intreptation and generally follows the religion your in, however some like me have different opinions on faith as whole. i dont see church as anything other than a way to make yourself feel better, but i need that every so often.

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2)also all i can say evolutionists is that your lucky this isnt a few hundred years ago, you all would be shunned, stoned, completely ignored, and probably killed for most of the crap you guys say; and i would be much more respected for being a guy and white, not any of the bs that some african-americans are pulling: "you enslaved and then freed us... boohooo' we want large sums of money or else we wont stop whining", bah ill enslave you again.
discrimation and reverse-discrimination suck ass, later.

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1)Oh dear what shall I do KP is going to bad to me....a)Any idea who that Polish fella is pal? the head of the worlds single largest religion thats who.....b)Wrong you are a vocal MINORITY in america.....2)Whats this some sort of if I ran the world wish list? Grow up....Would you like a chip for your other shoulder....

Understood I was merely pointing out that the largest christian (largest full stop actually) sect in the world is catholisism.... Thus more people believe in that particular interpretation than any other...By the way did you check out the proof of 1+1=2 yet? it has its own thread....take a look if you haven`t you never know when it may come in handy....

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Originally posted by redstang281:
I must confess I'm unimpressed.

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Ok provide reference to a paper by a credible author that claims all lifes common ancestor is a rock.....If you can`t it seems fairly ridiculous to claim that evolution claims so.....

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[This message has been edited by joz, 02-13-2002]