Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,908 Year: 4,165/9,624 Month: 1,036/974 Week: 363/286 Day: 6/13 Hour: 1/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Your reason for accepting evolution
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 67 of 111 (432477)
11-06-2007 8:25 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by Beretta
11-06-2007 8:00 AM


The rules of evolution are simple:
1)Assume evolution
2)Observe a fact
3)Make up a story to fit the fact into the assumption.
Lots of big scientific words are used to make it look smarter but if you change your perspective away from believing in evolution a priori, you will see that anything can be fitted in depending on the extent of your imagination.
You remember how I told you that you shouldn't recite nonsense about things of which you are ignorant?
These lies that you have been taught to repeat are in fact lies.
As for predictions, for example:
Evolutionists predicted that something like the coelocanth should be found as a missing link. When they found 'it', they jumped to all sorts of conclusions based on the assumption. Coelocanth failed as a missing link when a live one was first found, expelling it from the index fossil family (it still lives) and ousting it as an intermediate when the assumed leg precursors were only fins after all.
Evolutionists see what they want to see over and over again.
More stuff that you've made up in your head.
There is one actually -creation fits the bill perfectly -a supernatural creator created everything and that's why billions of intermediate (should be there) fossils are missing. Only fully formed creatures with fully formed organs, no half-half anything on its way from leg to wing, reptile lung to bird lung, scales to feathers nothing. Why???
Another standard creationist lie. There are lots of intermediate forms in the fossil record, as you would know if you'd ever bothered to learn anything about it.
Facts are solid. Evolution is the interpretation of the solid facts which are better explained by creation.Brainwashing in evolution makes it difficult for people these days to think any other way.
... says the man who's been reciting a bunch of silly lies to us without ever bothering to find out if they're true.
Do, please, lecture us on "brainwashing", we could do with a good laugh.
But religion that conflicts with reality (the bare facts)is a waste of time.
Wow, you just inadvertently said something that's true.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Beretta, posted 11-06-2007 8:00 AM Beretta has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by Beretta, posted 11-06-2007 9:08 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 68 of 111 (432481)
11-06-2007 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by Beretta
11-06-2007 8:25 AM


Re: evidence and assertions
All I will get is lots of imaginative stories about how this evolution happened with evolution assumed a priori.
Do you ever get tired of being wrong?
Half wing/half leg, half fin/half leg things like that would be good -to show that new genetic information has been added by mutation.Something to show that it is not all imagination.
I think you mean half-arm, half-wing.
At the top, the hand of an archosaur (the group ancestral to dinosaurs), at the bottom, the wing of a modern bird, and in between ...
Actually, I'm going to ask you to guess. Where would you say the saurians leave off and the birds begin?
Half-fin, half-leg? You mean like Tiktaalik?
You know, you could have found out this stuff for yourself, it's not like it's a secret.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Beretta, posted 11-06-2007 8:25 AM Beretta has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 70 of 111 (432483)
11-06-2007 8:49 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by Beretta
11-06-2007 8:44 AM


Re: evidence and assertions
The percentage may be relatively small for now but remember this is the predominating paradigm, the consensus of the moment.Science is written and rewritten and rewritten.
Yes, and each time it improves. So there's not a snowball's chance in hell that scientists will go back to a Bronze Age hypothesis that they know to be balderdash.
Numbers in favor of creation as an alternative explanation are rising all the time ...
I take it that you have absolutely no proof for this assertion.
Scientists are brainwashed into evolution before they get anywhere in scientific circles and then they build on that same shaky foundation.
... says the man who recites creationist rubbish without bothering to find out if it's remotely true.
Project much?
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Beretta, posted 11-06-2007 8:44 AM Beretta has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 72 of 111 (432485)
11-06-2007 8:53 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by Beretta
11-06-2007 8:25 AM


Re: evidence and assertions
Evolutionists see what they want to see over and over again.
Yes. This is because what we want to see actually exists.
That's how we know we're right.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Beretta, posted 11-06-2007 8:25 AM Beretta has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 75 of 111 (432489)
11-06-2007 9:14 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by Archer Opteryx
11-06-2007 7:25 AM


Re: The Banana that Wouldn't Die
Some genuine curiosity about anything would serve you well at this point.
But this is just what these people don't have. They are brutally indifferent to nature --- to beautiful, fascinating, complex, wonderful nature.
I think they scarcely live in the real world. Reality, to a creationist, is defined not by observing the world, but by the line of bullshit they find most comforting. The idea of looking anywhere outside their silly jumble of windy words for truth ... does not occur to them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Archer Opteryx, posted 11-06-2007 7:25 AM Archer Opteryx has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 76 of 111 (432490)
11-06-2007 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by Beretta
11-06-2007 9:08 AM


Re: Tiktaalik
In your eyes they are lies, in my eyes they make sense.
The two are not exclusive. Of course your lies make sense to you.
I start by presuming a creator, you start by presuming evolution.
You are telling me lies about what I think. This is not going to convince me.
Creation makes sense of all the fossils found in the wrong places according to the geologic time scale.
Which don't exist, which is why you can present no evidence for this ridiculous falsehood.
Not made up in my head - part of history or is the evolutionary memory wiped clean of the coelocanth debacle.It was a missing link like so many others, an index fossil (meaning died out hundreds of millions of years ago and thus used as an age indicator) . As an icon, it failed.It is alive -where has it been for hundreds of millions of years only to be found alive and well in the 20th century?
Claiming that I know nothing or that I sprout creationist lies is only a way of avoiding a decent reply -it doesn't have to be long, it just has to make sense.A proper reply would be nice.
Why should I bother to give a proper reply to a claim without any back-up but your say-so?
Still, if it'll make you happy.
* There is no such thing as "the" coelacanth --- coelacanths are an order, not a species, as you would know if you'd ever bothered to find out what you were talking about.
* The modern coelacanths are quite different from those found in the fossil record (which can, therefore, still be used as index fossils) as you would know if you'd ever bothered to find out what you were talking about.
* Scientists do not claim that tetrapods evolved from coelacanths, but from rhipidistians, which are a completely different order of lobe-finned fish, as you would know if you'd ever bothered to find out what you were talking about.
Not really -go to a natural history museum and look for them.Very few and extremely debatable.
There are lots. As for "debatable", anything can be debated --- alll you need is an ignorant crank with a soapbox. The proposition that the Earth is not flat is also "debatable". It's debated by idiots.
In time those that are supposed links (for the moment) will no doubt go the way of their predecessors -into the garbage.
What an interesting fantasy. Which intermediate forms do you claim have gone "into the garbage"?
Not inadvertent, my starting point actually. I don't believe in religion for the sake of it -if its true, great, if it's not, dump it.Same for evolution.
If you were motivated by a desire for truth, you'd have spent some time trying to find out if any of the nonsense you're reciting was in fact true.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Beretta, posted 11-06-2007 9:08 AM Beretta has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by Beretta, posted 11-10-2007 9:39 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 77 of 111 (432496)
11-06-2007 10:12 AM


Let's Have Some More Intermediate Forms
Let's have a few more intermediate forms, shall we?
Here we see the evolution of the middle ear bones of mammals from the reptillian jaw.
Nice. Let's have a whale with legs, shall we?
Ah, yes, Ambulocetus.
To quote Stephen Jay Gould:
"If you had given me a blank piece of paper and a blank check, I could not have drawn you a theoretical intermediate any better or more convincing than Ambulocetus. Those dogmatists who by verbal trickery can make white black, and black white, will never be convinced of anything, but Ambulocetus is the very animal that they proclaimed impossible in theory."
How about some assorted hominins?
Primitive fish? I give you Haikouella. Fins, yes; hard parts, no, apart from pharangeal denticles for feeding. Eyes are primitive light-sensitive spots. Known from over 300 specimens.
Dinosaur to modern bird, anyone?
Edited by Admin, : Reduce image size.

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-06-2007 12:50 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 79 of 111 (432507)
11-06-2007 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by Beretta
11-06-2007 10:54 AM


Actually so many show virtually no change over time -like clams for instance -virtually unchanged over supposed hundreds of millions of years -the same today. Yes you get varieties but so many kinds in the fossil record are just plain extinct, not changed into something that evolved and thus survived better.
Hey, look, you said something true again!
It fits better with the lack of any proof for increasing genetic information. Nobody exposes themselves to x-rays for fun. Mutations are detrimental and do not increase information. You need loads of increased information for evolution to produce something better or different.There is no proof of that so why believe in evolution? What seemed plausible in Darwin's time makes no sense in the light of modern genetics.
And now you're back to talking bollocks.
You know who knows about modern genetics?
Modern geneticists.
You know who knows bugger-all about modern genetics?
You.
Modern geneticists have no time for the puerile fantasies of creationists.
This is why you won't find a single geneticist who supports your krazy kreationist krap about mutations and information.
Darwin himself said "if my theory be true, countless intermediates must exist" -he never found them, neither has anyone else.Lots of fossils, no proven intermediates.
More sad little lies.
There's a vast hoo haa when a transition is proposed but they go out the window with no fanfare -just slip silently into obscurity to be replaced by the next hailed 'intermediate'.
Ths is the second time you've repeated this weird little fantasy. What on Earth do you think you're talking about?
I like to watch true believers (evolutionists) being questioned on their belief system, they very often froth at the mouth reminding me of Muslims defending Allah - dare you disagree?
I have never seen an evolutionist froth at the mouth. We obviously move in very different circles.
Perhaps you could show us a photograph of such an incident?
Or perhaps you made this up.
They accuse you of stupidity and lying and rehashing old junk but they do it themselves.
Well, that was easy for you to say. However, it isn't actually true, is it?
Luckily they have not started to chop our heads off yet but I am pretty sure they would like to get us into re-education (brainwashing) programmes so that all can share the faith.
Paranoid lunacy is its own reward, I guess. Wait, I mean punishment, don't I?
Damn, I feel sorry for you people.
As for Tikaaklik -some birds have teeth, some don't; some birds have claws on their wings, some don't. Some very strange creatures exist that seem to come from nowhere as well -creation perhaps. No reason to assume Tikaaklik is an intermediate form unless you first assume evolution.Evolutionists see a new intermediate in so many things. Why would a fish, a competent swimmer develop arms and legs and walk away? So many other body systems have to change to make that vaguely feasible.It should remain ungainly on land for at least a few million years -and natural selection should get rid of it.You can only assume they made it and turned into other land forms if you first assume evolution.What about just some type of weird extinct fish? That's what creation would assume and it would fit.
Why do you keep on reciting this dreary crap about "assumptions"?
The existence and location in the fossil record of Tiktaalik were predicted by the theory of evolution.
The evolutionists were right.
That's science for you.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Beretta, posted 11-06-2007 10:54 AM Beretta has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 82 of 111 (432513)
11-06-2007 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Dr Adequate
11-06-2007 10:12 AM


Re: Let's Have Some More Intermediate Forms
Let's have some foraminifera, shall we?
And now some ceratopians, eh?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-06-2007 10:12 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 88 of 111 (432776)
11-08-2007 6:57 AM


Summary:
I accept evolution because I know about biology.
People reject evolution because they know damn-all about biology, and so are suceptible to being brainwashed with stupid lying bullshit by pathetic stupid ignorant halfwitted creationist liars.
I trust that this answers the question in the OP.

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 99 of 111 (432984)
11-09-2007 1:01 PM


Cool. I want to add one.
If there was any case at all against evolution, then creationists wouldn't have to recite stupid lies in order to argue against it. They could tell the truth instead.
I'm sure that they would if they could.

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 105 of 111 (433301)
11-11-2007 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by Beretta
11-10-2007 9:39 AM


The Gish Gallop Limps On ...
... but if you want to pretend that your latest garbage is true, and it will be amusing to watch you try, since some of it is very funny indeed, then you're going to have to find or start a thread in which it's on topic.
In the meantime, I shall content myself by pointing out that with the exception of a couple of weasel half-truths (are you losing your grip?) it's just as false as all the other stuff you've recited, which is why you were incapable of producing a scrap of evidence for your falsehoods.
Bringing me back to the OP: I like evolution because biologists do have evidence. And because they do check that what they're saying is true.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Beretta, posted 11-10-2007 9:39 AM Beretta has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024