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Author Topic:   Our own species effect on natural habitats
Franatic25
Junior Member (Idle past 5947 days)
Posts: 30
Joined: 11-08-2007


Message 1 of 5 (433036)
11-09-2007 4:39 PM


U would think I am referring to our fast colonization of new areas in this topic. I am not.
Through my own studies of biology (of which the study of evolutionary biology is a relatively new one to me...I always saw evidence of it...but how to happens or why, I am still learning, so some of my posts may not be accurate...even to my OWN thoughts on the subject...in the very near future...but until then, bear with my ignorance) have noticed several changes that our species has had an enormous impact on the ecosystem, and even should we stop doing anything else...what has been done is done, and probably will not be reversed.
Do to the growing demand for animals for zoos, and for private owners and breeders of exotic animals (like myself) there has been a large influx of exotic species coming into the america's. And in this case...I will point out one specific location. The main port that is used for the inportation of animals is Tampa Bay.
Due to several factors which I can only guess at...animals simply escaping while being taken off the carriers...or owners releasing their pets...we see now new colonies of THRIVING animals in the everglades that should not be there.
2 of the most common that we will see more and more of in the coming years are the green parrots...and the reticulated pythons. The everglades is a great environment for both. The pythons in particular interest me (due to my field of study) because their behavior, size, and what they need out of the environment to survive are not at all dissimilar from anacondas. The 'glades is a perfect substitute for them. They are there now, however few, but are thriving and multiplying.
There is NO species of python that is domestic to the america's...their closest links being boas, which cover all of South America, with the exception of perhaps Chile, and all over Central America. They were at one time ( and not so long ago, I am speaking in the span of only as far back as the early to mid 20th century) also resided in Arizona and also perhaps New Mexico. I am speaking of BC or boa constrictors...there are other forms of boas that naturally inhabit the US...but dont look anything like the BC's. Rubber and Rosy boas come to mind quickly...both inhabiting the western shores of the US...and yet look nothing like a constrictor, and are legitimately seperate species from their more southern american boa cousins.
This small colony of reticulated pythons is now seperated from the gene pool of the species as a whole...and given enough time...should they continue to thrive...we will one day see a python different enough that it will inevitably be classified as a new species...perhaps called the Everglades Python...who knows.
The parrots are catching on fast as well, especially off the coast, on islands so small that they are often left off of most any map...except those used by mariners who NEED the best information for the areas.
What effect this will have on the ecosystem as a whole is of course unknown. All I can honestly say is it will in time change it, in some form or another.
These are more recent occurances...of course we deal with africanized honeybees...which we were so afraid of for several years.
How about Japanese Kudzu vine? If u have lived in the South...you have seen it. This was no accident either. It was brought in INTENTIALLY in 1876 as lifestock food (due to its extremely quick rate of growth) and ornamentation. Later on, farmers used it prevent soil erosion. The environment of the south is ideal for this plant...which grew out of control. It is now found everywhere...killing trees and other plants by covering them...thereby not allowing them access to sunlight. This one however, will only continue to grow (for now) where it is, due to the harsh cold of other areas of the country. Until such time that it can withstand the cold...this is a pest to southerners only.
I will however add that probably what was, and still is by many, considered to be the largest human ere in this matter...the love bug...was not human error at all. It was NOT synthesized to control mosquitos...or help with orange crops like many were led, and still are, led to believe in the Florida area. More likely, we had a more subtle effect for what we see now. They gravitate over concrete or other heat absorbing surfaces while mating, usually. It would appear they are EVERYWHERE when in your car during mating season. And from personal experience I can say it surely does appear that way. But the laying down of new roads in their habitat gives them the higher heat the prefer evidently...so they gather around those areas.
Now u will notice, I did not exactly post a question. This is for the reader to decide what to make of it. Generally, I observe, and document...probably why I am not more adept in the study of evolution than I am. So make of it what u will, but these are VERY few examples, and there are numerous others I know of, and numerous others I do not know of. Does it do anything to imbalance the exosystem in the long run? I doubt it, animals migrate naturally. The ecosystems will obviously be altered by what humans have done...but that just means that it was altered in a different way that it would have without our involvement...which seems to be a key point in evolution to begin with. Exosystems and creatures of all types change genetically every time they reproduce. It is inevitably a random event. What is nonrandom is that the mutations beneficial to survival are more likely passed on directly due to its benefits...
Edited by Franatic25, : No reason given.
Edited by Franatic25, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AdminPhat, posted 11-10-2007 4:08 AM Franatic25 has not replied
 Message 3 by AdminQuetzal, posted 11-10-2007 9:44 AM Franatic25 has not replied

AdminPhat
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 5 (433113)
11-10-2007 4:08 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Franatic25
11-09-2007 4:39 PM


Franatic Thinking and request input from Percy or Ned
I am impressed with how active your mind is! Are you interested in the study of Biology?
This topic is quite broad and abstract, so it is unpromoteable as is---although you bring some interesting questions up as you think out loud! Perhaps you and I can narrow it down a bit!
Let me ask you some questions:
1) Do you believe that human intervention is a major problem in the evolution of certain species? (Kudzu Vine being but one example)
2) The Everglades is a topic unto itself! Perhaps you could make a case for discussing the impact of human intervention on Everglades environmental Biology. (That would be a somewhat narrower topic)
Franatic25 writes:
What effect this will have on the ecosystem as a whole is of course unknown. All I can honestly say is it will in time change it, in some form or another.
Care to speculate on how the environment will be potentially affected by
  • Parrots
  • Pythons
    ?
    I also invite Percy and Ned to ask a couple of questions for our young friend. (They are much smarter in areas of Science than I am!)

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by Franatic25, posted 11-09-2007 4:39 PM Franatic25 has not replied

    AdminQuetzal
    Inactive Member


    Message 3 of 5 (433131)
    11-10-2007 9:44 AM
    Reply to: Message 1 by Franatic25
    11-09-2007 4:39 PM


    I'll echo nosy, I'm not clear what it is you want to discuss. Do you wish to talk about bioinvasion, and how exotic species turn invasive? How human impact is accelerating and/or a causative factor? In short, what exactly do you want to discuss?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by Franatic25, posted 11-09-2007 4:39 PM Franatic25 has not replied

    Franatic25
    Junior Member (Idle past 5947 days)
    Posts: 30
    Joined: 11-08-2007


    Message 4 of 5 (433192)
    11-10-2007 2:40 PM


    It is broad...but it is that way because I dont quite know how to narrow it down yet...but will work with you
    1) Humans DO effect the evolution of certain species...in many ways. Staying on what I have already discussed (I can broaden it later, but will stay on point with the little information I have already pointed out). Although in our species case...I would call our effect on evolution as facilitating bioinvasion, Kudzu being the best one I can discribe. A balance has not been reached since it was introduced. Until said vine either tolerates cold weather, or other plant matter develop the ability to fight them off, or it's growth directly alters the replecation of plant eating species of animals that will keep it in check easier...the long term effects are unknown, but would venture that, worst case, it would not be unlike what the crown-of-thorns starfish is currently doing to the Great Barrier Reef. It is only known that we HAVE drastically changed the environment.
    2) The everglades are just an example of one ecosystem being similar enough to another that the animal can thrive in it, yet is permanently divided from the rest of the species due to the newfound seperation. Which is not really what I was intending to discuss, but interesting in it's own way.
    3)This one IS interesting to me...very much so. The parrots effect on the ecosystem are unknown...because we do have native versions of parrots. However, worst case scenario...since parrots are more nomadic in behavior (most dont migrate...but neither do they stay where they are), and since their main diet consists of plant seeds...if the population of parrots got too large...I dont think it would be a stretch to see them slowing the reproduction of some plant life...not to the extent we see in locust swarms...not even worst case...but it would effect the growth of plants some.
    The pythons are another story. This could cause major short term changes in the ecosystem in the making. They would deal with very few predators...alligators maybe...although I could only guess at who would be hunting who in this case, or whether they would simply co-mingle without much interaction. They may see the occasional panther...which could easily kill a junevile retic. but the panthers are so few...and might very well simply leave them alone as well. I would suggest that either of those interactions would have very little effect. Man would be it's biggest threat...but the glades are for the most part, uninhabited. I think, should the populous continue to grow, we would see the pythons as, and not so unlikely, the top predator in their region...of which introducing a new predator, that for the most part, has no competition, has enormous effects. Sooner or later, the groups would even out, much like it is now everywhere else...a ratio of (x) predators to (x) prey. If the ratio isnt correct...the predators kill off all the prey, and grows in numbers substantially over the short term, then either move on or die off...or the prey becomes a wild growing population, in the later case...this is HIGHLY improbably since the prey in the 'glades is already in check due to current predators. So the first example is more likely...but what is even MORE likely...is we would see a short term shift towards the predators eliminating the prey...but I would even out over time. Much like alligators...retic's would tend to stay in or around water...keeping a certain amount of the other animals population relatively safe. What we would end up with is simply a new predator introduced that would catch prey in very much the same way that alligators might. The other creatures would not have to change that much about their behavior to thrive with this particular new species.
    Neither will (in the long run) change so much about the ecosystem of central florida that it wouldn't still be very much the same.
    But these are examples of what we are capable of on a small scale. And by accident. I would guess the first large scale ecological change man imposes on the planet will be from our labs...and our work with genetically altering viruses and bacterium. It doesn't even take that much skill to manipulate genes these days. And I guess it is THIS trend that is both amazing and disturbing about our progress.
    In this respect...I would check the nonfiction works of Richard Preston...both "Demon in the Freezer", and "The Hot Zone"...terrifying in their own right. And to a lesser extent his fictional tail "The Cobra Event". But if I would suggest only one it would be "Demon in the Freezer" since it is on the topic of humans effect on viruses, in this case... through our own desire for power, and touches on a few other keys that we have effects on in the microbial world.
    Here are quick "cliff notes" if nobody wants to pick it up
    http://www.genomenewsnetwork.org/...cles/03_03/demon_rev.php
    Of course it is a few years old...and taken Iraq probably doesnt have it...or is good at hiding it. In either case, that is not the point. This is only one case...however chilling. And is writer to BE fanciful and entertaining...but is in essence, a nonfiction. And this is just the re-representation of a bug that was supposed to have died out in the late 70s.
    To the lesser extent though is "The Hot Zone", which shows a little ignorance of basic biology...or mearily "changing" it for dramatic effect...and shows more of his personal political beliefs than I would rather have in a nonfiction. But once again, in essence, it really happened...
    Now I dont want to start diverging into a topic only about humans effect on virus RNA or strains by way of weapons alone. What we first see could have been intended for something else entirely. Perhaps we synthesize a bacteria which attacks the cell walls of Kudzu vine...I think with enough testing...one would likely eventually release such an agent. But who knows what effect that would have? Who can predict what small mutation it would take to alter it...and cause it to do something else...something we REALLY DONT WANT it to do. This is simply a case I can think of that is slightly plausible...humans attacking a threat...and the tools used for many things in the coming future could easily be microbials...to a lesser extent we have been doing it for years. Yeast makes bread rise, live bacteria is beneficial to the digestive system when taken via yogurt...and some pesticides being developed or already used are microbial agents that attack the intended target. But this will only get more complicated in the near future...and more unpredictable.
    I suppose this is where I would take this topic...because it is I feel the first place we will see a MAJOR effect on the ecosystem..and ourselves...our technology now evolves much faster than our DNA.

    Admin
    Director
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    Message 5 of 5 (433864)
    11-13-2007 9:46 AM


    Hi Franatic,
    The moderators have discussed your proposal, and the consensus seems to be that the topic isn't clear, and the topics that moderators are guessing you want to discuss (possibly that humans influence all other life on the planet, including from an evolutionary perspective) wouldn't make good discussion topics.

    --Percy
    EvC Forum Director

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