Rapture (pre-trib, mid-trib or post-trib) ?

There appears to be a controversy if the rapture is pre-trib, mid-trib or post-trib.Christians that take the bible literally believe when the last trump of God sounds is when the rapture will occur.The question too some is that the rapture will occur after the last angelic trumpet is blown in the book of revelation.If one reads the bible from a literal perspective the church will be raptured at the last trump of God not the last angelic trump.When will the rapture occur (is the controversy) Christians at the very least believe that rapture will be before the great bowls of wrath.Some believe the bowls of wrath is not a part of the tribulation. These are the post trib people.Others who include the bowls of wrath as a part of the tribulation and instead of a post trip believe in a mid-trib rapture.Others still who take the saints overcome by the beast as those left behind believe in the pre-trib rapture meaning those left behind will partake in the angelic trumpets not the raptured church.When God blows the trumpet the church will be gone and a warning to those left behind.The question is rapture to be pre-trib and is the saints mentioned in (kjv revelation 13:7) those left behind that choose Christ yet were overcome by the dragons power for those 42 months ? (kjv rev 13:5)The book of revelation interestingly puts these saints that overcome the dragon by death are too part of the first resurrection and not subject to the power of the second death. (kjv rev 20:5-6.)The bible mention the Lord God himself blowing the trumpet. Another supportive of the Lord God blowing his trumpet is mentioned in the book of Zechariah chapter 9:14. kjv================================================================Its about by using scripture to support pre-trib, mid-trib or post-trib rature. So in essense its a bit of a bible study unfortunately there is too many scoffers that are into bible study like jar that mocks biblical inerrancy, faith and belief so instead of bible study I'm leaning faith and belief.I believe its good as is as christians can fill in the missing verses about the trump of God, angelic trumpets, mark of the beast, the anti-christ, second death, why the second resurrection is not the rapture and why the martyred saints are a part of the first resurrection even though not part of the rapture.Also they can discuss why the raptured church and the martyred saints are both a part of the first resurrection and why the second death has no power over them and the thousand year ruling and reigning with Christ. And discuss why those not a part of the first resurrection will also be resurrected in the second resurrection and what and when is the second resurrection and why after the thousand year reign of Christ.

If they have oil for their lamp then when the door opens (the rapture) then it should pan out alright. kjv psalm 91:1-3.It says: Watch therefore, for ye know not the day nor the hour wherein the Son of Man cometh. kjv Matthew 25:10 & kjv Matthew 25:13

Revelation 6:12-13 right after the sixth seal is opened. It sounds identical to Mark 13:24-28 the part about the sun became black and the moon as blood and the stars of heaven fell to the earth.The sixth seal is before the angelic trumpets which is what makes me think its the last trump of God not the last angelic trumpet.It says after the sixth seal was opened that the day of his wrath is come. However if this is true then the angelic trumpets have not yet sounded are a part of the wrath of God. kjv Revelation 6:17.kjv rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.

http://philologos.org/bpr/files/l002.htmkjv Zechariah 9:14 mentions the Lord blowing the trumpet. kjv 1 Cor 15:52 says at the last trump for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.1 Th 4:16 It says the Lord himself shall desend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together it them in the clouds to meeet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. In the sixth seal it says the mountains and islands were moved out of their place. In the bowls of wrath its said the islands fled away and the mountains were no more to be found.kjv revelation 7:1 talks of the angels holding the 4 winds the whole chapter 7 seems to be in agreement with kjv mark 13:27Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.

Job said even though his body will be destroyed yet in his flesh with his own eyes he will behold the redeemer.=================================================================For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me. kjv Job 19:25-27Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.

In revelation those Martyred are told to wait yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren should be killed as they were should be fulfilled. kjv rev 6:11 And then they beheld the great earthquake and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; kjv Rev 6:12The apostle Paul too was martyred so he absent from the body is present with the Lord but told to wait a little season till their brethren too will be likewise killed as they were should be fullfilled.As far as the rapture seems to me that its about the Church those that have died believing in Christ will be raptured first (like Job)then those that are living having oil for their lamp will too be raptured called to the Marriage supper of the Lamb.It says: Blessed are they that are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. kjv Rev 19:9Those that are left behind after the rapture that are martryed will miss the marriage supper of the Lamb but will be part of the first resurrection all the rest will be part of the second resurrection.Joel 2:31 & Joel 2:32 says that whosoever calls upon the Lord will be delivered, as the Lord hath said and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call.In the Olivet Discourse as Buzz said the darkening of the sun and the moon are what happens shortly before the Rapture. If it happens post trib or pre trib is all in the hands of the Almighty but were told to watch and have oil for our lamps. If you die with oil in your lamp then when rapture occurs you will be called to be present to the marriage supper of the Lamb..

We'll I guess I have to agree its post tribulation but don't see how you can believe the 7 angels trumpets are of the tribulation.kjv rev chapter 7 is confirming the tribulation of church all happens before the seventh seal is opened. My take on it is once the seventh seal is opened we've moved into the wrath of God.kjv Matthew 24:31 you have the trumpet sounding in agreement with Revelation chapter 7 which is before the seventh seals opened. Its also in agreement with 1 cor 15:52 and 1 Th 4:16.This too me (not necessarily anyone else)pretty much seals the trump of God happening before the trumpets of the seven angels.I'm reading it to be that rapture will be at the last trump when the Lord himself blows the trumpet and the seven angels will be for those left behind.Meaning the seven trumpets are part of the wrath of God not a part of the tribulation.kjv rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?P.S. I'm leaning the tribulation is actually satan decieving man. Like if man left to man listening to the devil no flesh would of survived thus thus God shortened the tribulation. Then we move into the wrath of God upon those destroying the earth. kjv rev 11:18--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It appears to be a big subject however too me the man child in kjv Rev chapter 12 appears to be Jesus.The Church is usually referred to as the bride of Christ that she has washed her robes in Christ not referred to as the man child.Like the door opens for the rapture (the marriage supper once) then its closed. Those that are marytred for refusing to worship the dragon the image of the beast or to take the mark will be resurrected too at the end of the great tribulation and that too me concludes the first resurrection. kjv rev 20:5-6.As far as rapture there is also the two prophets that will die and come back to life rising bodily back up to heaven before the martryed saints are resurrected back to life.I don't see any other rapture going on other than the old testament saints that were bodily resurrected thus to me they all are a part of the first resurrection. I see Rev 14 the reaping of the earth a part of the first resurrection Saints. Is this what you mean that there is many different instances that are all part of the first resurrection?The Saints and those that didn't take the Mark and yet lived thru the great tribulation too me are to be part of the second resurrection after the thousand year reign of Christ.I agree the first resurrection saints will live and reign with Christ for those thousand years but simply don't see them mentioned as the man child.I thought the woman in rev chapter 12 was Israel and the place she was to fly to was Petra a place prepared for her but agree that the dragon will go after the saints that keep the commandments and have the testimony of Jesus. kjv rev 12:17It says she will flee into the wilderness almost 3.5 years to be sheltered from the dragon. As Christians were joint heirs in Christ thus of her seed thru Abraham.Gal.3:29 - And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.John 11:25-26 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life:he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.

It appears to me that its in the great tribulation after the rapture the last 3.5 years of the tribulation. In Rev 13 it says that power was given unto him to continue 42 months which is 3.5 years the exodus of the woman happens approximately 3.4 years thus it fits in my mind she the woman fleeing the dragon to the place prepared for her.If you look at kjv Daniel 12:11-12 is it talking about the woman having 45 days to flee the beast after the abomination. 1335-1290 = 45 days.
around the time of the abomination in kjv Rev 13:5-6 the beast is given unto him to continue 42 months. 1290 days plus 42 weeks = 7 years.kjv Daniel 9:27 about the 7 week covenant being broken by the False Messiah. If one days as a thousand years then 7 weeks = 7 years.This is why some are mid-tribulationist believers believing the raptured church will be before the great tribulation but after the tribulation.The bible too me does not seem to support the pre-tribulationist believers because of Mark 13:24. In my kjv bible it says after "that" tribulation which supports a two part tribulation too me.P.S. In kjv 2 Peter 3:8-9 were reminded that the Lord is not slack not willing that any should perish, etc... so is asking us to not be ignorant of this one thing that one day to the Lord is as a 1000 years.Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.

kjv rev 20:4-6 Jesus being the cornerstone and the living stones described as a spiritual house kjv 1 peter 2:6 one with Christ.Jesus appeared to Paul and said to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?" Acts 9:4).I believe this is what your trying to say that the man child being carried up to God and to his throne is the raptured church (supporting the mid-trib) in that its referencing the dragon and the woman fleeing the dragon. That this is also referencing the ruling and reigning with Christ is not just the martyred saints of the first resurrection. kjv 20:4 but the raptured church too will live and reign with Christ. kjv 12:5.The woman is Israel fleeing the dragon for those 1,230 days. The remnant of her seed is those left behind. These saints will be overcome by the dragon kjv Rev 13. and martyred for refusing the Mark of the beast didn't worship the beast or its image will be part of the first resurrection, and also rule and reign for a thousand years with Christ. kjv rev 20:4Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.

I don't see the timing different at all both are before the seventh seal is opened. They both support the mid-tribulationists believers rapture happens before the great tribulation approximately mid way thru the tribulation. The seven year covenant the False Messiah signs with Israel.kjv Daniel 9:27 If the last angelic trumpet is the the last trump of God. The last trump and its trumpet sounding says for the Lord himself shall desend from the heavens with the trump of God. kjv 1 thessalonians 4:16.In Zechariah you see The Lord blowing the trumpet (notice not an angelic trumpet) thus the last trump is the last trump blown by the Lord God.KJV Zechariah 9:14 says the Lord God shall blow the trumpet in Zechariah 9:16 seems a reference to the woman the stones of a crown a flock of his people in that day the Lord their God shall save them, lifted up as an ensign upon his land. It does say the first resurrection will live and reign with Christ.If they are part of the first resurrection then they will live but perhaps not all reign. Is that what your saying? Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.

The tribulation is 7 years from the beginning of the covenant to the last 3.5 years which is called the great tribulation. It does not sound confusing for he will be the one that signs the peace treaty with Israel.2 Thessalonians 2:3 says let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Thats how I see it but leaning its also apart of the rapture for the wedding feast. I'm leaning it preceeds all the trumpets of the angels but can see why your leaning its before the fifth trumpet. Perhaps my take is the sixth seal is before the seventh seal and the seventh seal is about the seven angelic trumpets. It says heaven is his throne and also that he sits upon the circle of the earth that the inhabitants are as grasshoppers, etc... kjv Isaiah 40:22Job 26:9 He holdeth back the face of his throne, and spreadeth his cloud upon it.2 Chronicles 18:18 Again he said, Therefore hear the word of the Lord; I saw the Lord sitting upon his throne, and all the host of heaven standing on his right hand and on his left.Isaiah 66:1 Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest? My take the Anti-Christ will be infilled with satan when he is healed of the wound. It says "his" wound was healed kjv rev 13:3-4 then in rev 13:18 that the beast is a man. Interesting! Possibly 1-10 & 11-22. Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.

It says its an angel however the angels appearance is about the likeness of the glory of the LORD.================================================================kjv Ezekiel 1:28 This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD, etc...

I'm using the Authorized KJV suspect we have a conflict in the kjv bible verses the RcV bible. It always comes back no matter what verse you give me that its an angel of the Lord but that does not mean the message is not from the Lord.====================================================================kjv rev 10:6 And sware by that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:====================================================================kjv john 1:3 All things were made by ; and without him was not any thing made that was made.==================================================================== Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.

I take it that the angel is smybolically representing Christ but not that the angel is Christ.kjv Ezekiel 1:28 it says this angels appearance was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD.