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Author Topic:   ZeitGeist
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 166 of 185 (431142)
10-29-2007 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by Spektical
10-29-2007 2:57 PM


Re: JC Did Not Exist!
Spektical writes:
Judiasm is sillier....
It's silly to compare one silliness to another.

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by Spektical, posted 10-29-2007 2:57 PM Spektical has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 167 by Spektical, posted 10-29-2007 3:10 PM ringo has replied

  
Spektical
Member (Idle past 5976 days)
Posts: 119
Joined: 10-16-2007


Message 167 of 185 (431143)
10-29-2007 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by ringo
10-29-2007 3:08 PM


Re: JC Did Not Exist!
I'm not comparing...if you read my previous posts you would know I was talking about the progression of myth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by ringo, posted 10-29-2007 3:08 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by ringo, posted 10-29-2007 3:24 PM Spektical has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4958 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 168 of 185 (431144)
10-29-2007 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by Spektical
10-29-2007 2:57 PM


Re: JC Did Not Exist!
I didnt take offence, although I adore the Hebrew Bible and believe that the NT authors have essentially mutilated it in their attempts to make Jesus into something he wasnt.
The point I was making though is that all these things you point out, the ancient things, Christians believe they happened as well. Plus on top of that you have the NT writings.
I have met a great many Christians and Jews and I have yet to meet a Jew that takes things such as the Flood or the great ages of the Patriarchs literally, I havent met any Jew that takes the entire Hebrew Bible literally, but I have met many Christians who think the universe is 6000 years old and Jesus created it.
There's many reasons why I think people believe in God. Fear of being alone in the universe, hope in external entity that is responsible for keeping things ticking over and if you kiss its ass enough then you get a reward. Brain-washing as a child (a form of child abuse), psychological trauma, wishful thinking, weakness, ex junkie/alcoholic swapping one addiction for another, ignorance, laziness, delusion, too stupid to accept anything else, and I could probably think of a lot more!
But both faiths are silly, it is difficult to say which is sillier, but Jews dont believe that God ordered the scrifice of God to God to make things ok with God, now that is silly.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by Spektical, posted 10-29-2007 2:57 PM Spektical has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by Spektical, posted 10-29-2007 3:23 PM Brian has replied

  
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5914 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 169 of 185 (431145)
10-29-2007 3:16 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by Spektical
10-29-2007 2:57 PM


Re: JC Did Not Exist!
spektical writes:
Judiasm is sillier because it relies on practices and notions that are even more ancient than christianity.
Right like blood atonement for sins. A pretty common ancient human practice - even amongst civilizations that did not have contact with one another.
It is interesting how Christianity innovates or modernizes this privative notion. However, now you are left with this very strange theology of a god sacrificing himself to himself to atone for the sins of his own faulty creation.... hmmmm
Edited by iceage, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by Spektical, posted 10-29-2007 2:57 PM Spektical has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by Spektical, posted 10-29-2007 3:33 PM iceage has not replied

  
Spektical
Member (Idle past 5976 days)
Posts: 119
Joined: 10-16-2007


Message 170 of 185 (431148)
10-29-2007 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by Brian
10-29-2007 3:15 PM


Re: JC Did Not Exist!
Considering the population of christians is much larger than the jewish one, its no surprise you meet more christians who have a delusional perspective as opposed to jews. However all you have to do is go to Isreal and your experience will change.
Since you adore the jewish bible, its only reasonable to assume that you are either a believer in judiasm or you have a particular bias towards christians.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by Brian, posted 10-29-2007 3:15 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by Brian, posted 10-29-2007 3:44 PM Spektical has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 171 of 185 (431150)
10-29-2007 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by Spektical
10-29-2007 3:10 PM


Re: JC Did Not Exist!
Spektical writes:
I'm not comparing...
"Sillier" is a comparison. "Ten times siller" and "100 times sillier" are comparisons.
... if you read my previous posts you would know I was talking about the progression of myth.
If you're going to talk about "progrssion of myth", you should be able to do it without descending into silliness.

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Spektical, posted 10-29-2007 3:10 PM Spektical has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by Spektical, posted 10-29-2007 3:34 PM ringo has replied

  
Spektical
Member (Idle past 5976 days)
Posts: 119
Joined: 10-16-2007


Message 172 of 185 (431151)
10-29-2007 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by iceage
10-29-2007 3:16 PM


Re: JC Did Not Exist!
Right like blood atonement for sins. A pretty common ancient human practice - even amongst civilizations that did not have contact with one another.
It is interesting how Christianity innovates or modernizes this privative notion. However, now you are left with this very strange theology of a god sacrificing himself to himself to atone for the sins of his own faulty creation.... hmmmm
Agreed. But this brings me back to the original point that these mythologies evolved through time, and it seems that when the stories are heard they are somehow revised to suit their contemporary zeitgeist and redistributed back to the masses.
One very interesting bit of info I discovered recently that I didn't know before was that the gospels were written AFTER the letters of Paul. Is this true? and if it is, what do christians think about this?
Edited by Spektical, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by iceage, posted 10-29-2007 3:16 PM iceage has not replied

  
Spektical
Member (Idle past 5976 days)
Posts: 119
Joined: 10-16-2007


Message 173 of 185 (431152)
10-29-2007 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by ringo
10-29-2007 3:24 PM


Re: JC Did Not Exist!
If you're going to talk about "progrssion of myth", you should be able to do it without descending into silliness.
but why not ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by ringo, posted 10-29-2007 3:24 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by ringo, posted 10-29-2007 3:47 PM Spektical has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4958 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 174 of 185 (431153)
10-29-2007 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by Spektical
10-29-2007 3:23 PM


Re: JC Did Not Exist!
Since you adore the jewish bible,
I adore it as literature.
its only reasonable to assume that you are either a believer in judiasm
Yes, that is a reasonable assupmtion, however I am an atheist.
I got seriously interested in the Hebrew Bible in 1995 during my first degree, but the main focus of my research interests are mainly confined to the books of Exodus through to Judges. I was amazed to discover just how much of the history in these books, which I used to take for granted as being reasonably accurate, has now been shown to be untrue, and my interest has just deepened. My interest in the ancient near east though is not confined to the Hebrew Bible.
or you have a particular bias towards christians.
I do feel that Christianity is a particularly flawed faith, the huge flaws in Christain theology are embarrassing, and I have also discovered that the majority of Christians I have met (and I have given some street preachers a few things to think about ) don't really know much about the Bible.
But if you look at each set of scriptures seperately, the Hebrew Bible is in a different league from the boring monotonous New Testament.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by Spektical, posted 10-29-2007 3:23 PM Spektical has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 175 of 185 (431154)
10-29-2007 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by Spektical
10-29-2007 3:34 PM


Re: JC Did Not Exist!
Spektical writes:
but why not ?
The topic is about a silly movie about silly mythologies. If we dig any deeper into the silliness of silliness, we'll come out the other side.
The animal sacrifices in the Old Testament were a sensible way to provide food for the priests. They weren't silly (though the necessity of the priests is a little harder to explain).
The common interpretaion of the New Testament that God sacrificed Himself to pay Himself a debt that He claimed we owed Him - that's waaaay beyond silly, beyond idiotic, beyond insane.
Edited by Ringo, : Added missing word "way".

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by Spektical, posted 10-29-2007 3:34 PM Spektical has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by Brian, posted 10-29-2007 3:52 PM ringo has not replied
 Message 177 by Spektical, posted 10-29-2007 4:08 PM ringo has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4958 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 176 of 185 (431155)
10-29-2007 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by ringo
10-29-2007 3:47 PM


Re: JC Did Not Exist!
The common interpretaion of the New Testament that God sacrificed Himself to pay Himself a debt that He claimed we owed Him - that's waaaay beyond silly, beyond idiotic, beyond insane.
If only Christians could see things as clearly.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by ringo, posted 10-29-2007 3:47 PM ringo has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by Spektical, posted 10-29-2007 4:11 PM Brian has not replied

  
Spektical
Member (Idle past 5976 days)
Posts: 119
Joined: 10-16-2007


Message 177 of 185 (431156)
10-29-2007 4:08 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by ringo
10-29-2007 3:47 PM


Re: JC Did Not Exist!
My point still stands....as insane as you might think it is, that is ONE story.
The story of abraham and Isaac is extremely silly....a man hears a voice that tells him to sacrifice his own son????!!!??
Or the story of sodom and gammorah???!!!??
The creation of the angels and the first rebellion????!!!??
The conclusion is that all Judieo-christian stories are silly and ridiculous. However as you read forward through the bible, they seem to start focusing on one particular theme.
Christians have contrived their belief system upon complete stupidity, and I agree with you that the story is f'd up. Maybe the christian belief is history's messenger telling us that these stories are paradoxical and can only be read from a historical context. Meaning they are only meant to give us an insight into how the human mind worked BACK THEN.....or this just me stating the obvious?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by ringo, posted 10-29-2007 3:47 PM ringo has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 179 by Brian, posted 10-29-2007 4:25 PM Spektical has replied

  
Spektical
Member (Idle past 5976 days)
Posts: 119
Joined: 10-16-2007


Message 178 of 185 (431157)
10-29-2007 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by Brian
10-29-2007 3:52 PM


Re: JC Did Not Exist!
If only Christians could see things as clearly
I say the same things for jews and muslims.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by Brian, posted 10-29-2007 3:52 PM Brian has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4958 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 179 of 185 (431161)
10-29-2007 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by Spektical
10-29-2007 4:08 PM


Re: JC Did Not Exist!
My point still stands....as insane as you might think it is, that is ONE story.
One story with a whole range of sub-plots though, all of which are almost as silly.
The story of abraham and Isaac is extremely silly....a man hears a voice that tells him to sacrifice his own son????!!!??
A story which Christians belief.
Or the story of sodom and gammorah???!!!??
Another story Christians believe.
The creation of the angels and the first rebellion????!!!??
Which Christians also believe and often confuse with Paradise Lost.
The conclusion is that all Judieo-christian stories are silly and ridiculous. However as you read forward through the bible, they seem to start focusing on one particular theme.
The Hebrew Bible gets less sillier too as we progress through it.
This one theme you focus on is still dependant on the whole of the Hebrew Bible, its roots are supposed to be there.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by Spektical, posted 10-29-2007 4:08 PM Spektical has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 180 by Spektical, posted 11-01-2007 9:04 PM Brian has replied

  
Spektical
Member (Idle past 5976 days)
Posts: 119
Joined: 10-16-2007


Message 180 of 185 (431746)
11-01-2007 9:04 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by Brian
10-29-2007 4:25 PM


Re: JC Did Not Exist!
First what are the subplots of christianity?
My point STILL stands....progression towards a more CENTRAL theme is the truth when it comes to religions/cults. This is simply due to the fact that knowledge is ACCUMULATED with time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by Brian, posted 10-29-2007 4:25 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 181 by Brian, posted 11-05-2007 4:12 PM Spektical has not replied

  
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