So What is Blasphemy?

The post I am responding to is egregiously off topic and a deliberate derail.If I was a Moderator I would suspend you for one day.Ray

What about Omni's and Brenna's off-topic discussion about "Blasphemy, the beer/ale"?If you were moderator, you should get everyone, not just one. You know, a little thing called be even-handed and/or fair.

There were no Romans in Jerusalem then?The point I was making is that crucifixion is a Roman punishment therefore the Jews would not be subjected to yahweh's wrath.IF Jesus was crucified, then it was the Romans who done it, the Jews had no reason to kill such an insignificant criminal.Edited by Brian, : added 's' to 'Roman'

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Omni writes:

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Could you tell us the source of your special definition that no one else uses?

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Ray writes:

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http://EvC Forum: So What is Blasphemy? -->EvC Forum: So What is Blasphemy?

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"Example: the Pharisees admitted that no person could do the works of Jesus (= miracles) unless God was with Him. THEN, later on, they said He did the works/miracles by the power of Beelzebub (= Satan). In this precise context Jesus called this blasphemy and said that it would not be forgiven. That is blasphemy - there you have it."

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Ray

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I see that your source is, as usual, an unhinged, idiosyncratic interpretation of a Biblical text.Whatever someone claimed in a book of myths that Christ did or did not say many years after he could have said it, reinterpreted imaginatively by you, does not change the definition or usage of modern English words.Even assuming Christ's words were as reported, that does not mean that he was offering a definition of blasphemy: you are confusing lesser and greater sets.I might declare your post an instance of mental confusion; however, even if I am right, that does not mean the general definition of mental confusion is "Ray's posts."Perhaps you can appreciate the difference.

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The post I am responding to is egregiously off topic and a deliberate derail.

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If I was a Moderator I would suspend you for one day.

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Ray

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I appreciate your concern.But my post has not derailed the thread; your complaints and the consequent replies are eating up more of the thread than my post did.Nor was it off-topic. It was, in fact, a gently parodic way of pointing out that blasphemy is different things to different people, especially if we are all allowed to make up our own definitions.It also called a really fine ale to greater attention, doing more good at a stroke than all your mean-hearted missives will ever do.Once someone else here has sampled Blasphemy, I expect a POTM.Edited by Omnivorous, : If you were Moderator, this would be Hell.

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Your opinion is self-evidently false. No objective person would call the following definition of blasphemy the way you have described it since said definition makes perfect sense and is the Biblical definition of blasphemy:"Example: the Pharisees admitted that no person could do the works of Jesus (= miracles) unless God was with Him. THEN, later on, they said He did the works/miracles by the power of Beelzebub (= Satan). In this precise context Jesus called this blasphemy and said that it would not be forgiven. That is blasphemy - there you have it." Then what is your source for information about Christ? Your comment presupposes His existence then attacks the Source of information about Him to be "myth." Other than making no sense, your view is atheistic and thus entirely predictable lacking any objective value whatsoever. My example said that He did. Anyone can look up the scripture and read that He called my example blasphemy.Again, your opinion is just that beside being unsupported or your belief about the fact is demonstrably false and has been shown as such.Ray

There are no objective persons. Perhaps the delusion that you are such a person is the root problem. I'll try to let you down easy...the above is not a quote from the Bible. Inside, I'm crying.There are no persons who are sources of views which have objective value. Again, you are incoherent.How can you expect to win debates with mangled sentences like that?In the Bible, Christ speaks in complete sentences to express coherent thoughts. I recommend you start with the little things he did before tackling the big ones.

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Gee, Officer Krupke. All we did was answer the question. The subject is Blasphemy.It appears the question has more answers than you foresaw.Not a bad thing to realize. And not a bad thing to realize early._____Edited by Archer Opterix, : brev.

While the beer is recommended by one of my recently most trusted critics (omni) I think I will pass on the band unless you have a compelling reason for me to take a listen (sorry archer).What concerns me is the definition: 1b) the act of claiming the attributes of deity. Now I wonder if anyone who claims to judge who is a Christian and who is not, which under many sects is the equivalent of stating who is saved and who is not, is in the position to claim the power of God without also being guilty of committing blasphemy.I have noticed that there are several members of this forum that feel they have the power to declare who is saved and who is not according to the strictures of the Christian religion.My question ultimately is who are they to claim the power reserved to the Christian God to determine who achieves salvation and why, according to their own professed belief system, proclaim they are allowed to usurp such judgment their own book says is reserved to God alone?

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Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis BaconThe more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza

If there is a God, I don't see how He/She/It could be offended by our ravings and fist-shakings. Amused, maybe.In reality, "blasphemy" is the act of insulting or showing contempt for somebody's idea of God. Those who accuse others of blasphemy are committing

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1b) the act of claiming the attributes of deity;

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which is blasphemy.Hoist by their own petard.

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“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
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That would make sense for any deity that would have the power to not feel threatened. Not sure I follow this one as well, maybe I am just being dense.What term would one use for the act of claiming to know who is saved and who is not within the Christian framework? What term would one use for the act of stating they know the exact date for the 'rapture,' second coming, or the end of the world?IIRC the Bible itself contradicts such claims made by mortals. How does one refer to the people who make these claims seeing as how there appear to be several members of this forum who are asserting that they know such things - in direct contradiction to what is rather forcefully stated in the Bible?

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Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis BaconThe more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza

I may have glossed over a step or two in my eagerness to get to the punchline. I suppose "the act of claiming the attributes of deity" was intended to mean claiming to be God or god-like. I took it to mean, more broadly, claiming to know God or God's mind.So yes, claiming to know who is "saved", claiming to know the "rapture" is coming "soon", etc. would be blasphemy, I think.(Addendum to the punchline: All fundies are petarded. )

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“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
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i agree. in fact, i believe such persons are referred to as "false prophets". if you claim to have knowledge, you are a prophet. if you have knowledge that the spirit and the word say you can't have, you are a false prophet.the "rapture" is only vaguely supported at all, and requires a pre-millenial attitude, for which there is also limited support. and in either case the word says "none shall know the day of his coming". and then, of course there's a whole book that is allegedly about knowing the day of his coming, in which case, i would suggest that it contains false information and should be expunged.as to special knowledge of who is "saved", we have only the fruit of the spirit and individual claim to tell us. if people exhibit the fruit, we must assume they are of god. another guide repeating some of the same information is "The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love." Followed by this: "In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son {to be} the propitiation for our sins." so love is sacrificing yourself for others. "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love." so those who inspire fear and demand punishment are not capable of love and thus do not know god. "If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen." the book has already told us that our neighbor is everyone in need of care. these are the uses of brother i see no reason to restrict it to "christians," but even if it is so restricted, condemning someone god may not condemn isn't very loving. so saying someone isn't a christian when they claim to be demonstrates a lack of love which is required to know who a christian is.of course this bit also includes this "Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God."also, i see these two threads overlap and i will post the latter bit in the "who is a christian" thread. Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.