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Author Topic:   What if you have never heard of God, Jesus, or the Holy Bible?
Spud
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 90 (40053)
05-14-2003 7:31 AM


Question.
If someone was raised from birth with no knowledge of God whatsoever, would he go to heaven if he died or if he happened to be around when Jesus' comes back?
Also is it the same answer if a child dies at birth?

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Gzus, posted 05-14-2003 2:56 PM Spud has not replied
 Message 3 by nator, posted 05-15-2003 4:07 PM Spud has not replied
 Message 9 by stevo3890, posted 06-11-2003 1:30 PM Spud has replied
 Message 46 by Number_ 19, posted 06-26-2003 9:50 AM Spud has not replied

  
Gzus
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 90 (40101)
05-14-2003 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Spud
05-14-2003 7:31 AM


Why Hell of course

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Spud, posted 05-14-2003 7:31 AM Spud has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 3 of 90 (40281)
05-15-2003 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Spud
05-14-2003 7:31 AM


If you read the Bible literally, then the people would go to hell, and the babies would go to hell, too.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Spud, posted 05-14-2003 7:31 AM Spud has not replied

  
Spud
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 90 (40292)
05-15-2003 6:19 PM


Do you read the Bible literally schrafinator? If so, and this goes for Gzus too, don't you think what your saying is a bit harsh? Particularly for a child who has only just been born?
------------------
When all else fails, anything remaining, no matter how unlikley, is probable.

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Karl, posted 05-16-2003 5:07 AM Spud has not replied
 Message 6 by nator, posted 05-16-2003 10:15 AM Spud has not replied

  
Karl
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 90 (40386)
05-16-2003 5:07 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Spud
05-15-2003 6:19 PM


But this is the point isn't it. Lots of people on these fora insist we must read the Bible literally. Therefore they must believe that babies who die go to Hell.
Do they?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Spud, posted 05-15-2003 6:19 PM Spud has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 6 of 90 (40404)
05-16-2003 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Spud
05-15-2003 6:19 PM


Well, I am an Agnostic, so I read the Bible differently as a believer would.
However, there are plenty of people who say that the Bible should be read literally, and they say it is quite clear and needs no interpretation.
So, I would ask the same question of them that you are asking.
Interestingly, this very question of fairness and reasonableness was the "last straw" that caused my now-husband (at the age of 12) to stop going to church and away from Fundamentalist Christianity.

This message is a reply to:
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DC85
Member (Idle past 380 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 7 of 90 (40470)
05-16-2003 8:39 PM


I think what he is saying is if noone heard of it would beliefs be the same as they are today? would this board even be here? would anyone be a Creationiest?

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by nator, posted 05-18-2003 9:08 AM DC85 has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 8 of 90 (40559)
05-18-2003 9:08 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by DC85
05-16-2003 8:39 PM


quote:
I think what he is saying is if noone heard of it would beliefs be the same as they are today?
Well, there's no way of knowing for sure, but I would say that it is doubtful that people would spontaneously begin believing in Jesus of Nazareth as their messiah if they had never heard of him.
Nor would they particularly envision the Judeo Christian desert uber-god unless someone suggested it to them.
People make their own gods within their own cultures.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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stevo3890
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 90 (42576)
06-11-2003 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Spud
05-14-2003 7:31 AM


Despite popular belief you do not go to Hell if you never heard the word of Jesus. "If you were blind, then you would not be guilty" John chapter9, 41. Jesus says a couple times in the New Testament, if you have heard the word and do not listen to it (not a qoute) then you are in trouble while if you haven't then only God can judge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Spud, posted 05-14-2003 7:31 AM Spud has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by zephyr, posted 06-11-2003 3:42 PM stevo3890 has not replied
 Message 13 by Spud, posted 06-11-2003 6:14 PM stevo3890 has replied

  
Jesuslover153
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 90 (42578)
06-11-2003 1:42 PM


If you read the Bible literally than you would not even ponder this... who are we to judge another mans servant? Is not God both God of the living and the dead... I think you are best leaving these decisions up to God.. even discusses them leads to much unfruitful chatter which spreads around like gange green...
God bless all your minds... please if you pray, pray for me.

Replies to this message:
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stevo3890
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 90 (42580)
06-11-2003 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Jesuslover153
06-11-2003 1:42 PM


I Agree

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zephyr
Member (Idle past 4550 days)
Posts: 821
From: FOB Taji, Iraq
Joined: 04-22-2003


Message 12 of 90 (42598)
06-11-2003 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by stevo3890
06-11-2003 1:30 PM


quote:
Despite popular belief you do not go to Hell if you never heard the word of Jesus. "If you were blind, then you would not be guilty" John chapter9, 41. Jesus says a couple times in the New Testament, if you have heard the word and do not listen to it (not a qoute) then you are in trouble while if you haven't then only God can judge.
Only God can judge? Man, his followers have had me convinced my entire life that it's their job. Of course, they usually use different terminology to confuse the issue. "Love the sinner, hate the sin" is one of my favorites.
I've heard a lot of disagreement about what happens to people who never hear about Jesus. Out of curiosity, what do you think of the fact that geographic location of birth (and time in history) is the prime determinant of someone's chance of ever hearing the word? What do you believe happens to the vast majority of humanity that never realistically had/has a chance of believing what you do?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by stevo3890, posted 06-11-2003 1:30 PM stevo3890 has not replied

  
Spud
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 90 (42613)
06-11-2003 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by stevo3890
06-11-2003 1:30 PM


stevo3890 said:
"Jesus says a couple times in the New Testament, if you have heard the word and do not listen to it (not a qoute) then you are in trouble while if you haven't then only God can judge."
Can you please tell which me scriptures you are refering too?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by stevo3890, posted 06-11-2003 1:30 PM stevo3890 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by stevo3890, posted 06-11-2003 8:55 PM Spud has not replied

  
Conspirator
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 90 (42616)
06-11-2003 6:28 PM



  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 15 of 90 (42619)
06-11-2003 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by nator
05-18-2003 9:08 AM


'but I would say that it is doubtful that people would spontaneously begin believing in Jesus of Nazareth as their messiah if they had never heard of him.'
its funny but i heard a strange story of an nde yesterday , a boy aged 3 died and later came to life,later on he said he went to the light during death and Jesus was there, he told this to his mum and dad at the age of 4. he also said he was carried by a 'big white birdy' and told his dad not to worry he was in no pain because he said the child on the floor (him) was not him.i think he must have meant he had came out of his body. ok its a nice story and you may not believe it,but i thought id tell you as this deals with the question.also i didn't think a 4 year old would know about these things at that age.(no reason to lie).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by nator, posted 05-18-2003 9:08 AM nator has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by NosyNed, posted 06-11-2003 8:22 PM mike the wiz has replied

  
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