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Author Topic:   General Discussion Of Moderation Procedures 13.0
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 106 of 312 (425912)
10-04-2007 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Admin
10-04-2007 12:46 PM


Re: Higher Debating Standard
Maybe it's because they don't see anything wrong with IamJoseph's evasions or CTDs constant stream of slander.
Iano's reaction when Jar dared say that Hovind should actually suffer the penalty of law for his crimes suggests that he, at least, doesn't care about justice. It's all about who's on "his side". Maybe the others feel in much the same way. People on "their side" should be allowed to do whatever they want - the rules should not be applied to them. Buzsaw's insistence that criticism of creationists should not be allowed may be an example of that sort of thinking.
Or maybe not. But it still seems that some sort of explanation is in order.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Admin, posted 10-04-2007 12:46 PM Admin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by iano, posted 10-04-2007 6:01 PM PaulK has replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3048 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 107 of 312 (425930)
10-04-2007 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Admin
10-04-2007 12:46 PM


Re: Higher Debating Standard
I have many times posed the same question to the creationist moderators. Evolutionists firmly rebut their nuttier elements (e.g., Hoot Mon), but creationists seem to allow their nuttier elements free rein. Why aren't more creationists challenging Ray Martinez and IamJoseph and CTD and Vashgun and so forth saying something like, "Hey, dude, you don't speak for all Christians, and I don't agree with the views you're expressing or the way you're expressing them. You're making Christianity look bad."
Because Christian-Creationists agree with one another - that's why.
The only "Christians" who do not agree are evolutionists, and after listening to these "Christian-evolutionists" their views are noticeably atheistic, which explains why they do not agree with us.
We, in turn, explain the atheistic "Christianity" of these evolutionists by pointing out that Judas the Betrayer walked "with" Christ for three and one-half years, but Jesus in John chapter 6 says that He knew Judas was a son of the devil from the beginning. Therefore the Christian-evolutionists, like Judas, are deceived, which explains why they think they are Christians while accepting the same origin for mankind as Richard Dawkins. Typologically, Judas explains how persons could think of them self as Christians walking with Christ, but are in fact walking with Satan.
Ray

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Admin, posted 10-04-2007 12:46 PM Admin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by iceage, posted 10-04-2007 4:37 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 108 of 312 (425950)
10-04-2007 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by Brian
10-02-2007 3:59 PM


Re: EvC becomes more of a joke
Are you saying it is not possible to be banned from doing something for a week, a month, a year?
No, not at EvC. You can be suspended for a specific amount of time, or you can be indefinitely suspended-- i.e., banned.
He is banned from posting.
He was suspended from posting. Just say that you misspoke, Brian, so we can all move on.
We all know that a little email from Faith to Percy would allow her back.
Percy has said that he's all for her coming back, and yet, at the same time it was he that opted to ban her in the first place.
Percy has this obsession with trying to make EvC a balanced debating site
And you view this as less than virtuous??? Damn you Percy for being fair and balanced!
This is why he has Buzz as an admin and turns a blind eye to Buzz’s abuse of his admin status.
Just so you know Brian, there are a lot of disputes behind the scenes here at EvC where Buz and Percy argue over a few issues. Generally, because neither of them act like children, they work through their issues. But they in no way see eye to eye in all cases.
Percy want to create an illusion that evc is a fair and balanced site
Whether its an illusion or a reality, Percy is honestly trying to make it fair and balanced. Holy cow man, shouldn't you be congratulating him? Or are you all for the immediate banning of those you deem as creationist loonies?
he knows himself that the creationist members here are invariably nutballs and really have no clue how to support an argument, it’s as if they have a bit of their brain missing.
Brian, this certainly doesn't apply to all creationists on the board, nor are all evolutionists immune to some half baked ideas. Again, I'm not here to name names. We have good posters and bad posters. Neither side can claim sole ownership.
in Percy’s rabid attempt to balance the sides, he now discriminates against those members who can support their arguments, who know what skills are required to investigate a subject to a level that is acceptable of an adult. The creos get away with a lot because they have to, they are incapable of competing on a level playing field because they do not possess the necessary core skills to do so.
Then if this is what you truly think, please address them to Percy via email so that he can immediately cater to your every beck and call, m'kay?
bias shown towards the fundies, But I did say I would return.
The fact that 3 creationists on average get suspended in any given week does you no justice. And the fact that different admins, who don't get approval from Percy in any way also suspend people, such as myself, it virtually destroys your assertion altogether. Secondly, you seem to be under the impression that we suspend people based on their intelligence. We do not. We suspend people based on their actions.
quote:
Look, we're not going to go in to a debate about who gets away with more crap.
So why bring it up Einstein?
I didn't, Hawking, you did. I'm addressing your complaints.
quote:
As far as I'm concerned, most admins don't have some vendetta against an opposing ideology. (However, notice that I said most, not all. And no I'm not going to name names).
You don’t have to. Stevie Wonder can see the bias here.
Since its you making all of the sweeping allegations, perhaps the bias that is so transparent, is all on your side of the table. Food for thought.
If there was even handed moderation there would probably be about 2 theists here.
Well, thanks for saying that I'm worthy of staying.
You do know that Jar is a theist don’t you, and that you are supporting my stance?
Oh, yes, I'm aware that Jar is a theist in the broadest sense. But your complaint isn't about theists, its about creationists. Jar, Percy, Jazzns, RAZD, etc-- all theists.
he has to keep his lapdog Buzz happy doesn’t he? Percy has this incessant desire to mollify the creos here, he has to or there would be no EvC.
What exactly are your contentions with Buzsaw? Forget about Percy momentarily. Explain to me what Buz has done that you think deserves flogging?
How do you know how often I come here, I could have been coming here every day as far as you are aware?
Well, if you'll look at the top of the screen, it lists all the members online right now. Your name rarely comes up.
ems that your child like approach to theology and history has seeped into your every day life as well.
Ain't that the kettle calling the pot black?
Maybe you should take time to think about what you are writing before you post.
Oh, you didn't know? Percy writes out a script for us beforehand on how to respond to any given poster.

"It is better to shun the bait, than struggle in the snare." -Ravi Zacharias

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Brian, posted 10-02-2007 3:59 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by Brian, posted 10-04-2007 4:42 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5915 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 109 of 312 (425964)
10-04-2007 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by Cold Foreign Object
10-04-2007 3:08 PM


Creationist Agreement Questioned
Ray writes:
Because Christian-Creationists agree with one another - that why.
I dunno I have encountered Creationists that cover a wide range of myth/pseudoscience beliefs.
CFO are you the same Ray Martinez in the comment below?
Ray Martinez, Old Earth/Young Biosphere Creationist writes:
There were no dinosaurs on the Ark. The only persons who make this
ridiculous claim are Fundamentalist Young Earth Creationists. The real
issue is why are you accepting young earth morons to represent the
Creationist position? Does it make you feel smart and intelligent? We
know from the Bible alone that the Earth is very old.
The full context can be found here Pengeluaran HK: Data HK, Toto HK | Keluaran HK Pools
Must be a talk.origin backup.
Sounds like you - same name, same label slinging bellicose style..
If this is your quote then you are calling your otherwise good buddy Christian Brothers Buz, Faith, NJ and others "morons"
That doesn't sound like agreement.
I think the apparent cohesiveness you experience in a setting like you find here is the result of the common human trait to form alliances when a common enemy is perceived.
To be honest I think you see it on all sides not just the Creationist.
I admit I find myself experiencing an inclination or urge to support my brother in arms.
This trait can be found in many different settings from internet forums to workplace culture to the battlefield and even.... wait for it... Chimpanzee culture.
Ray whether you like it or not we are just getting in touch with our Inner Ape - can you feel it?
BTW there is book by that title which I recommend. I goes a long way to explaining certain characteristics that pop up in society and personal relationships. You might like it, the author actually take a few pot shots at Dawkins.
There is great value in understanding the sources or impetus of some of our behavioral characteristics and inclinations - some never understand or even try or have adopted false explanations that prevent them from understanding.
Edited by iceage, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 10-04-2007 3:08 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 110 of 312 (425966)
10-04-2007 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Hyroglyphx
10-04-2007 4:12 PM


Re: EvC becomes more of a joke
He was suspended from posting. Just say that you misspoke, Brian, so we can all move on.
I used the word that I meant to use. Do American drunk drivers get banned from driving or suspended from driving?
Percy has said that he's all for her coming back, and yet, at the same time it was he that opted to ban her in the first place.
It was also he who bullied her into being an Admin as well. Percy does these little shows now and again though. He'll ban an 'enemy' of creos just for show.
And you view this as less than virtuous??? Damn you Percy for being fair and balanced!
Of course I do when he isn’t being fair and balanced towards its members.
Just so you know Brian, there are a lot of disputes behind the scenes here at EvC where Buz and Percy argue over a few issues.
I was an admin when you were just a twinkle in your daddy’s eye, I know what goes on behind the scenes. I know Percy really wanted more creo mods to deal with the creos so that it wasn’t always evo mods pointing out how silly creos are, and Buz has often done Percy’s ”dirty work’ for him.
Generally, because neither of them act like children
I’d disagree with that.
Whether its an illusion or a reality, Percy is honestly trying to make it fair and balanced.
How can he be doing it ”honestly’ when he discriminates against certain members, what is fair about that?
Holy cow man, shouldn't you be congratulating him?
Congratulating him on what, treating people unfairly?
Or are you all for the immediate banning of those you deem as creationist loonies?
I am for treating everyone equally. Why should creationist loonies get more leeway?
Brian, this certainly doesn't apply to all creationists on the board
Sorry, but I am afraid it does.
Neither side can claim sole ownership.
The creos can, quite easily.
Then if this is what you truly think, please address them to Percy via email so that he can immediately cater to your every beck and call, m'kay?
I couldn’t give a f*ck what Percy does with his site.
The fact that 3 creationists on average get suspended in any given week does you no justice.
If this was a fair and balanced site then there would be a lot more.
And the fact that different admins, who don't get approval from Percy in any way also suspend people, such as myself, it virtually destroys your assertion altogether.
It isn’t an assertion, it is a fact.
Secondly, you seem to be under the impression that we suspend people based on their intelligence. We do not.
God knows where you get this from.
We suspend people based on their actions.
But different people get treated differently for the same actions.
Look, we're not going to go in to a debate about who gets away with more crap.
I didn't, Hawking, you did. I'm addressing your complaints.
LOL, it was you that brought it up!
Since its you making all of the sweeping allegations, perhaps the bias that is so transparent, is all on your side of the table. Food for thought.
Sweeping facts.
Well, thanks for saying that I'm worthy of staying.
I’m afraid you aren’t one of the two.
Oh, yes, I'm aware that Jar is a theist in the broadest sense. But your complaint isn't about theists, its about creationists. Jar, Percy, Jazzns, RAZD, etc-- all theists.
So if I was talking about creationists why did you bring up theists. I was addressing YOUR point about theists.
What exactly are your contentions with Buzsaw?
You haven’t been following this thread then? You aren’t aware of Buzz abusing his admin status by, amongst other things, calling Jar a liar while in admin mode, setting Jar up with one post and knocking him out with another?
Well, if you'll look at the top of the screen, it lists all the members online right now. Your name rarely comes up.
But you have to be signed in for your name to appear there. Try logging out and then browsing the site, your name won’t appear.
Ain't that the kettle calling the pot black?
Feel free to point out any errors in my theology.
Oh, you didn't know? Percy writes out a script for us beforehand on how to respond to any given poster.
I know how admin works, if only you did.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-04-2007 4:12 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-04-2007 5:41 PM Brian has not replied

macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 111 of 312 (425995)
10-04-2007 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Brian
10-04-2007 4:42 PM


Re: EvC becomes more of a joke
Do American drunk drivers get banned from driving or suspended from driving?
depends what state you live in.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Brian, posted 10-04-2007 4:42 PM Brian has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Percy, posted 10-04-2007 6:19 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 112 of 312 (426000)
10-04-2007 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by PaulK
10-04-2007 1:56 PM


Re: Higher Debating Standard
PaulK writes:
Iano's reaction when Jar dared say that Hovind should actually suffer the penalty of law for his crimes suggests that he, at least, doesn't care about justice. It's all about who's on "his side". Maybe the others feel in much the same way. People on "their side" should be allowed to do whatever they want - the rules should not be applied to them. Buzsaw's insistence that criticism of creationists should not be allowed may be an example of that sort of thinking.
How delightfully revisionist! I have no problem at all with Kent Hovind being brought to justice, being tried by his peers and being sentenced according to law. Other than finding him entertaining to watch in the couple of youtube clips I have seen I could barely comment on the man. Note that I would find the evo-equivilent equally entertaining - were it so that such a one existed (Richard Dawkins is about the closest equivilent that springs to mind). I take neither seriously.
My objection to Jar had to do with his delight in a man (any man)being sentenced to (as it was at the time potentially) a very, very long time in prison. Justice is one thing. Delight in it quite another. It was the delight that repulsed me and drove me to object.
quote:
Or maybe not. But it still seems that some sort of explanation is in order.
Now you have it. The reason I didn't comment on the nutbag creos of my day was simple. I didn't read them. Who wants to read nutbags from anyside?
An aside:
Regarding this supposed two-tier rule system. Either apply the rules equally to all and "have no more Creos". Or apply a two-tier rule system and quit complaining about having to do so. It is unbecoming to want it all ways - especially when its evos doing the application and evos doing the complaining. Sometimes you can see things from a distance that all of you close up can't see anymore
Just my 2c worth
Edited by iano, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by PaulK, posted 10-04-2007 1:56 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by PaulK, posted 10-04-2007 6:40 PM iano has replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 113 of 312 (426004)
10-04-2007 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by macaroniandcheese
10-04-2007 5:41 PM


Re: EvC becomes more of a joke
In NH, driving privileges can be suspended. You have to turn your license in to the motor vehicle agency once your privileges are suspended. They mail it back to you after the suspension period, but there's a fee.
Severe violations can result in license revocation, meaning you don't get it back, but you can usually file for reinstatement after a certain time period, and if the application is approved there would be a hearing before a judge. The applicant pays all filing and court fees.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-04-2007 5:41 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-04-2007 6:44 PM Percy has not replied
 Message 116 by jar, posted 10-04-2007 6:45 PM Percy has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 114 of 312 (426006)
10-04-2007 6:40 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by iano
10-04-2007 6:01 PM


Re: Higher Debating Standard
Hovind's got away with a lot for a long time. He's got a record of fancying himself above the law, and there was a rather unpleasant assault case he was involved in, too. I'm glad that he has finally paid the penalty for something. It needed to be done.
And what you actually said was:
Jar, your looking more like the sickest of psycos with every elapsing minute. God have mercy (and I do say it with extreme difficulty) on your black soul.
and more in the same vein. Quite frankly I have to say that my judgement stands. Especially coming from someone who believes in a literal Hell. Even if the court gave Hovind the maximum sentence - which he would never serve anyway - it would be nothing compared to Hell.
And quite frankly if Dawkins is the closest you can find on the evolutionist side to Hovind then evolution is in great shape. Because there really is no comparison.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by iano, posted 10-04-2007 6:01 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by iano, posted 10-05-2007 6:13 AM PaulK has replied

macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 115 of 312 (426007)
10-04-2007 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by Percy
10-04-2007 6:19 PM


Re: EvC becomes more of a joke
in florida, you lose it for 6 months or a year (not sure). apparently, in california, they buy you gas.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Percy, posted 10-04-2007 6:19 PM Percy has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 116 of 312 (426008)
10-04-2007 6:45 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by Percy
10-04-2007 6:19 PM


On provocative language.
Just a question. Is it now seen as provocative when someone, (understandable a Creationist Admin) calls you a liar to simply ask them to present their evidence?
I realize that when a Creationist calls someone a moron or idiot or freak or liar or says a poster should be shot they should not be sanctioned, but is it now considered provocative to simple ask them to present their evidence?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Percy, posted 10-04-2007 6:19 PM Percy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by Phat, posted 10-04-2007 7:38 PM jar has replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 117 of 312 (426014)
10-04-2007 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by jar
10-04-2007 6:45 PM


Re: On provocative language.
Its in how it is done, Jar. This forum is not the same type of competitive atmosphere as your old boarding school porch debates. Logic and common sense are not the only game in town here. We seek to present the rational as well as the irrational. The mundane and the mystical.
Of course, all viewpoints should be supported in some way shape or form, if possible. Often, however, Faith/Belief views are by nature unsupportable except in scriptural context.(itself a debate)
Respect for the other individual is important---even if you personally think they are a conman, a delusional cultist, or a brainwashed teenager.
If, on the other hand, they become frustrated and don't respond to your (polite) constructive argument, chances are they will be the first ones to call you a name. In that case, we all shall see it publically and if a moderator catches it, it will be dealt with.
You have every right to ask someone to present their evidence. You ask me all the time, and occasionally I have some...most of the time I do not. Such is the nature of belief.
Buz has publically apologized for calling you a liar. Many creationists are frustrated with you because you dont ascribe to dogma. You test all truth claims against logic, reason, and reality.
You don't have to win every argument in order to have the respect and attention of others.
The audience of lurkers and viewers knows full well the points and counterpoints.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by jar, posted 10-04-2007 6:45 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by jar, posted 10-04-2007 7:52 PM Phat has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 118 of 312 (426016)
10-04-2007 7:52 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by Phat
10-04-2007 7:38 PM


Re: On provocative language.
Its in how it is done, Jar.
I assume you can show where it was done wrong?
Maybe in Message 22 where when I was accused by AdminBuz of posting
a big fat meanspirited off topic lie
I asked him in Message 23
jar writes:
If you can support your assertions, bring on the evidence. Show where I have made a personal attack. Otherwise, quit whining.
If you want to play "Billy did it too", just understand I can support my position.
So far NO ONE has presented such evidence.
Now just how the hell is asking an Admin to show where you are lying being provocative?
Buz has publically apologized for calling you a liar.
Really? Before I was suspended for asking him to support his accusation? I assume you can link to that message?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by Phat, posted 10-04-2007 7:38 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by AdminPhat, posted 10-04-2007 8:10 PM jar has not replied

AdminPhat
Inactive Member


Message 119 of 312 (426022)
10-04-2007 8:10 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by jar
10-04-2007 7:52 PM


Case Closed
OK. You win. Case closed. We now return to our regularly scheduled programming. Buz and you are so yesterday!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by jar, posted 10-04-2007 7:52 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by Taz, posted 10-04-2007 9:31 PM AdminPhat has not replied

Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 120 of 312 (426047)
10-04-2007 9:31 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by AdminPhat
10-04-2007 8:10 PM


Re: Case Closed
What was that? Oh yeah, CASE CLOSED!!!
You guys really ought to listen to Sugar Baby Love by Rubettes more often.

Disclaimer:
Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

This message is a reply to:
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