Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 59 (9164 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,925 Year: 4,182/9,624 Month: 1,053/974 Week: 12/368 Day: 12/11 Hour: 1/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Sky Daddy Cult
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 5 of 43 (422066)
09-15-2007 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Phat
09-15-2007 4:56 PM


Phat writes:
I have never heard of God as being similar to a Father in that He expects His people to "grow up" and not have need of Him, however.
You need to get up to speed. That very point has been discussed many times right here at EvC.
On the other hand, I don't see God as some stern Father that boots us out of the nest and expects us to become independent of Him, either.
What a bizarre analogy. What would you think of a bird-father who didn't teach his children to be independent, who left them unable to fly south?

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Phat, posted 09-15-2007 4:56 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Phat, posted 09-17-2007 7:46 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 10 of 43 (422478)
09-17-2007 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Phat
09-17-2007 7:46 AM


Re: Independence or Inter-Dependence?
Phat writes:
If you look at scriptural references to Jesus as our Shepherd, nowhere does it imply that sheep reach a certain age where they no longer need a shepherd.
That's the danger of gluing yourself to one scriptural image and ignoring all the rest.
It's the Father-child relationship that we were discussing. It certainly is implied that children reach a certain age where they no longer need their parents. Parents usually die before their children, making it necessary for children to become independent.
Flying South is an instinct...a built-in feature for birds.
Irrelevant. We're talking about the kicking-them-out-of-the-nest stage, not the direction they fly outside the nest.
A bird-father who kept his birdlings in the nest where they never learned to fly would be inconceivably irresponsible. He would be ultimately condemning his children to suffering and death.
Why would God be so irresponsible?

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Phat, posted 09-17-2007 7:46 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Phat, posted 09-18-2007 6:18 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 12 of 43 (422796)
09-18-2007 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Phat
09-18-2007 6:18 AM


Re: Independence or Inter-Dependence?
Phat writes:
Yes but unlike a natural Father, God never dies nor do humans ever outgrow there need for Him.
You're assuming the conclusion. The question is, Do we ever outgrow the "need" for God?
I don't like the "nest" analogy...
Well, you're the one who brought it up. It isn't my fault if your own analysis of your own analogy doesn't fit the point you're trying to make.
I think the Sky Daddy topic is tailor-made for discussion of closer-to-earth sky-daddies.
...how about mansion?
Notice your own reference:
quote:
Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions....
He wasn't talking about keeping us in His mansion. He was talking about our own mansions. That's a picture of an independent adult child, isn't it?
And why is He preparing a place for us?
quote:
... that where I am, there ye may be also.
So we can be with Him, not so He can wipe our noses and screen our boyfriends.
I believe that God expects us to become mature in our Faith and to use the reasoning that He gave us.
Becoming mature in our faith means understanding that faith is not a substitute for reason. Nor should it be an excuse to dangle on the apron strings.

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Phat, posted 09-18-2007 6:18 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Archer Opteryx, posted 09-18-2007 11:57 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied
 Message 24 by Phat, posted 08-10-2014 6:11 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 16 of 43 (435514)
11-21-2007 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Phat
11-21-2007 8:07 AM


Re: Who is in charge of our conscience?
Your quotemines don't seem to support your point.
Read a little further in Proverbs:
quote:
Pro 3:11 My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction:
Pro 3:12 For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.
Pro 3:13 Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.
Happy is the man that groweth up. That's why the father correcteth him - so he will grow up and take charge of his own conscience.
And:
quote:
Psa 118:9 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in princes.
Psa 118:10 All nations compassed me about: but in the name of the LORD will I destroy them.
The context is a mature warrior trusting in God as an ally, not a babe in arms depending on mommy/daddy.

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Phat, posted 11-21-2007 8:07 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Phat, posted 12-13-2007 11:21 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 18 of 43 (440658)
12-14-2007 12:20 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Phat
12-13-2007 11:21 PM


Re: Who is in charge of our conscience?
Phat writes:
Don't you think that a person can both be mature and trust in the Lord on a daily prayerful communion basis?
Sure, but trusting your bed-ridden earth-daddy and communing with him on a daily basis isn't what you've been advocating, is it? Why does trust and communication have to involve swinging from apron-strings?

Disclaimer: The above statement is without a doubt, the most LUDICROUS, IDIOTIC AND PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WILLFUL STUPIDITY, THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN OR HEARD.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Phat, posted 12-13-2007 11:21 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Phat, posted 12-15-2007 3:40 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 20 of 43 (440921)
12-15-2007 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Phat
12-15-2007 3:40 AM


Re: Who is in charge of our conscience?
Phat writes:
I try and pray every day, but I dont treat God like Major Nelson treated Jeannie!
Get your pop culture straight. Jeannie was not a father figure.
You treat God more like Sonny Drysdale treated his father (or mother).
I believe that God gives me the wisdom I need to mature.
But you keep telling us that you only want to mature so far. You don't mind maturing from Opie Taylor to Richie Cunningham, but you don't want to be the real Ron Howard and make your own movie.
My point is that God is a loving Father....not some distant omnipotant mega-bundle of energy halfway across the universe!
That isn't the topic.

Disclaimer: The above statement is without a doubt, the most LUDICROUS, IDIOTIC AND PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WILLFUL STUPIDITY, THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN OR HEARD.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Phat, posted 12-15-2007 3:40 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Phat, posted 12-17-2007 12:35 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 22 of 43 (441401)
12-17-2007 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Phat
12-17-2007 12:35 PM


Re: Who is in charge of our conscience?
Phat writes:
Again, isn't "making our own movie" the same thing as the ye shall be as gods syndrome?
"Ye shall be as gods" isn't a syndrome. It's the choice that Adam and Eve made. It's why God gave them - and us - free will. It's the choice He wants us to make.
... I also don't believe that He simply expects us to do anything we imagine to do without consulting Him via some form of communion--be it prayer or meditation.
So you keep saying over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. There's no doubt that that's what you believe, Richie. What I'm asking is, "Why is it so bad to be Ron?" Why (and how) have you picked an arbitrary spot for your development to come to a screeching halt?
All of this happened,because we imagined and followed through on our discoveries.
And all because we didn't listen to the "communion" that told us to be afraid.
After all, im sure He is not proud of the H-Bomb!
We have stolen fire from the gods.

Disclaimer: The above statement is without a doubt, the most LUDICROUS, IDIOTIC AND PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WILLFUL STUPIDITY, THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN OR HEARD.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Phat, posted 12-17-2007 12:35 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Phat, posted 12-23-2007 3:35 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 31 of 43 (735321)
08-11-2014 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Phat
08-10-2014 6:11 PM


Re: Independence or Inter-Dependence?
Phat writes:
You, however, may have a different form of communion---perhaps one such as Stiles that involves only humans.
If there's no detectable difference between communing with God and communing with humans, what's the point of (pretending you're) communing with God?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Phat, posted 08-10-2014 6:11 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Phat, posted 08-11-2014 3:21 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 43 of 43 (735374)
08-12-2014 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by Phat
08-11-2014 3:21 PM


Re: Independence or Inter-Dependence?
Phat writes:
For one thing, Jesus advocated it.
Reference, please.
He also advocated helping the poor (and I do have references) but you routinely toss that aside as if it was secondary.
Phat writes:
Within the context of my belief, there is no pretending.
Within the context of The Lord of the Rings there are walking trees. Within that context, we need to pretend that they're real or there's no point in being within that context.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Phat, posted 08-11-2014 3:21 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024