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Author | Topic: Sky Daddy Cult | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
This Link may show a bit of the Sky Daddy favoritism that you suggest. I have never heard of God as being similar to a Father in that He expects His people to "grow up" and not have need of Him, however.
On the one hand, Prosperity Theology could be said to be a gross misrepresentation of Gods unmerited favor upon believers. There are some aberrant teachings out there concerning Gods purpose as some sort of magical genie that showers only believers with abundance...usually in the form of materialistic blessing. On the other hand, I don't see God as some stern Father that boots us out of the nest and expects us to become independent of Him, either. God desires a daily communion and personal relationship with Him. Thats what I was always taught, at any rate.
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Jon writes: I don't expect God to fix all of my problems, but I also don't expect to be pushed out from under His covering, either. One of the most apt metaphors that defends my view of god is the The 23rd Psalm. Note how it says that I shall Dwell In The House Of The Lord Forever. It appears that we never need leave the nest!
Whereas a father would allow you to apply your own bandages, a daddy tends to your scraped knee like it is very special. A daddy feels his child as being too incapable of doing certain things him/herself, and so is willing to do the harder work for the child. A father expects his kids to grow up, but a daddy is willing to accept that they will be forever dependent on his care.
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Ringo writes: Flying South is an instinct...a built-in feature for birds. If you look at scriptural references to Jesus as our Shepherd, nowhere does it imply that sheep reach a certain age where they no longer need a shepherd.
What a bizarre analogy. What would you think of a bird-father who didn't teach his children to be independent, who left them unable to fly south?
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Ringo writes: Yes but unlike a natural Father, God never dies nor do humans ever outgrow there need for Him.
It's the Father-child relationship that we were discussing. It certainly is implied that children reach a certain age where they no longer need their parents. Parents usually die before their children, making it necessary for children to become independent.Ringo writes: I believe that God expects us to become mature in our Faith and to use the reasoning that He gave us. I don't believe that He ever expects us to leave His nest, however. This nest is quite large! We're talking about the kicking-them-out-of-the-nest stage, not the direction they fly outside the nest. A bird-father who kept his birdlings in the nest where they never learned to fly would be inconceivably irresponsible. He would be ultimately condemning his children to suffering and death. Why would God be so irresponsible? Moreover, I don't like the "nest" analogy....how about mansion?
NIV writes:
John 14:1-4--"Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me. In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going."
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Jonnachi of Alexandria writes: OK...good work. You clarified the meaning of child in Biblical context. I should point out that in those situations 'child' is essentially a modifier referring to the 'reception' or 'humbleness' and is supposed to specify what model of 'reception' or 'humbleness' to take into your own life. It is not a modifier referring to the person; it does not tell you how to be, but rather how to 'humble', rather how to 'receive'. Lets re-examine this topic, however.
Jonnachi writes: I agree with you that we are not helpless children in the sense that God is our everyday rescuer. From my perspective, SDT is the belief of some Judeo-Christians that God acts not merely as a Father, who protects and provides for His people, but more specifically as a 'Daddy', who tends to every need of ours and is present to hold our hands through all of life. What do you interpret this scripture to mean, however?
NIV writes: Prov 3:5-7 5 Trust in the LORD with all your heartand lean not on your own understanding; 6 in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight. 7 Do not be wise in your own eyes;(...) Jon writes: his ultimate goal is to help you to grow and develop into a mature, and responsible adult, capable of making your own decisions, and willing to accept the consequences of your actions with the insight that it is you alone who must mend the problems of your life. NIV writes: Ps 118:8 8 It is better to take refuge in the LORDthan to trust in man. and while I'm tinkering around in the quote mine, can we shed some light on what Jesus meant (or how the author of John interpreted His meaning)
NIV writes: John 14:1-214:1 "Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me. and...John 14:6-76 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." Some folks say that GOD is unknowable. I agree inasmuch as GOD the territory is so vast and awe-encompassing that it would be impossible for a mere worm-like human to even begin to fathom the depths of His intelligence. What did Jesus mean, though..when He said: NIV writes: Does this suggest that Jesus was just some human guy who did what was right in his own eyes? John 14:10-11The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Convictions are very different from intentions. Convictions are something God gives us that we have to do. Intentions are things that we ought to do, but we never follow through with them. * * * * * * * * * * “The world has achieved brilliance without wisdom, power without conscience. Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants.”--General Omar Bradley * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Homer Simpson: Sometimes, Marge, you just have to go with your gut! Marge: You *always* go with your gut! How about for once you listen to your brain?
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Don't you think that a person can both be mature and trust in the Lord on a daily prayerful communion basis?
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
so who says Im swinging from apron strings?
I try and pray every day, but I dont treat God like Major Nelson treated Jeannie! I believe that God gives me the wisdom I need to mature. My point is that God is a loving Father....not some distant omnipotant mega-bundle of energy halfway across the universe!
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Ringo writes: lol But you keep telling us that you only want to mature so far. You don't mind maturing from Opie Taylor to Richie Cunningham, but you don't want to be the real Ron Howard and make your own movie. Again, isn't "making our own movie" the same thing as the ye shall be as gods syndrome? I agree that God does not expect us to go toddling around holding His almighty hand like wee babes, but I also don't believe that He simply expects us to do anything we imagine to do without consulting Him via some form of communion--be it prayer or meditation. God knows that we are well capable of achieving "anything that we imagine" if we so imagine it. Years ago, scoffers said that we would never walk on the moon. Scoffers laughed at the idea of words and messages traveling through the air. All of this happened,because we imagined and followed through on our discoveries. Dad just wants to counsel us on wise decisions. After all, im sure He is not proud of the H-Bomb!
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Ringo writes: So are you suggesting that perhaps God wants us to choose freely, even if it causes us to go down a less desired path? It's the choice that Adam and Eve made. It's why God gave them - and us - free will. It's the choice He wants us to make. I dunno....I simply can't accept the idea that God is a deistic Creator who simply has better things to do than to guide us into our destiny and purpose. IF He expects us to do it all on our own, why the need for Jesus?
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: No. I was at a hospice this last week watching a close friend die. The family was there. Many people came and went and there was lots of prayer. The question is, Do we ever outgrow the "need" for God? While people are mature enough to realize that God wont fix everything and that death is another part of life, people realize that communion(communication) with God is an ongoing and necessary part of life. It also bonds us together as humans. You, however, may have a different form of communion---perhaps one such as Stiles that involves only humans.
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Unfortunate? No...just unique and relative to you the individual. Am I incorrect in my assessment?
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
If there's no detectable difference between communing with God and communing with humans, what's the point of (pretending you're) communing with God? For one thing, Jesus advocated it. Within the context of my belief, there is no pretending. God exists despite no detection. jar writes: I can't explain how it happens. I believe that God exists and is always present.
You keep saying that but never explain how it happens or how you can know you are communicating with God. I also agree that GOD is far far beyond any human comprehension---this I cannot explain any more than I can comprehend. Could Ringo be right in that I am pretending? Yes, it may be possible that I am wrong. When I prayed with my friends family at the hospice, it was for their comfort and thus had value even if GOD did not exist. I believe, however, that He does exist and desires communion with us.|
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Why?
Derision=contemptuous ridicule or mockery. Explain why we should ridicule and mock these people again? I don't see why it is charged for us to do. The scripture always told me to "bless those who curse me"....
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