EvC Forum: Where Was W Waldo?

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Topic: Where Was W Waldo?

RAZD

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Message 1 of 35 (141136)
09-09-2004 12:38 AM

From Where was George? (click)

Thursday, September 9, 2004
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER EDITORIAL BOARD

In times of war, especially controversial war, it is legitimate to examine the military bona fides of the commander in chief and anyone who would be commander in chief.

Sen. John Kerry has learned that the hard way as his service in Vietnam has been questioned in response to his "reporting for duty" approach at the Democratic convention.

And with more than 1,000 U.S. dead in Iraq, the controversy over President Bush's service -- or lack thereof -- in the Texas Air National Guard will not go away.

The Boston Globe reported yesterday that an analysis of military records shows that Bush "fell well short of meeting his military obligation" in the late '60s and early '70s and he did not face the prescribed punishments for doing so.

The allegations, first raised by The Globe in 2000, have returned with new fervor. And the exposure of a Bush campaign connection to the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth attack on Kerry naturally spurs new interest in Bush's National Guard record and renews questions of strings being pulled to help a privileged son avoid Vietnam through a coveted slot in the Guard.

If it's fair game to question whether Kerry earned the medals he was awarded for his tour of duty in the Vietnam War, it's fair game, too, to question whether Bush earned what amounted to his deferment from that war.

But that is not all of the story yet: CBS obtained four documents from the personal files of Col. Jerry Killian, Mr. Bush's squadron commander at the texas ANG base.

From Bush's Guard Duty Under Microscope (click for full article)

The first memo is a direct order to take "an annual physical examination" - a requirement for all pilots.

Another memo refers to a phone call from the lieutenant in which he and his commander "discussed options of how Bush can get out of coming to drill from now through November." And that due to other commitments "he may not have time."

On August 1, 1972, Col. Killian grounded Lt. Bush for failure to perform to U.S. Air Force/Texas Air National Guard standards and for failure to take his annual physical as ordered.

A year after Lt. Bush's suspension from flying, Killian was asked to write another assessment.

Killian's memo, titled 'CYA' reads he is being pressured by higher-ups to give the young pilot a favorable yearly evaluation; to, in effect, sugarcoat his review. He refuses, saying, "I'm having trouble running interference and doing my job."

(bold italic underline my emphasis)

That last from a commander that was so impressed with young George when he joined that he arranged a special photo-op of him swearing in young George.

here's more (same source):

It's not just the newly discovered memos causing trouble. There are new questions as to why, when he moved to Massachusetts to attend Harvard Business School, Mr. Bush did not sign up with a reserve unit there, as he promised in a letter when he left the Texas National Guard

And why, with his erratic attendance record, he was subject to neither discipline nor active duty call-up as provided for in his contract with the Guard.

Larry Korb, an assistant Secretary of Defense under President Reagan has reviewed the Mr. Bush's record and believes he did not fulfill his contract.

"Essentially, Bush gamed the system to avoid serving his country the way that most of his contemporaries had to," Korb said.

There are no documents certifying shrubs completion of the service training requirements that would be necessary for him to get an honorable discharge.

Something is missing ... and it appears to be some service that was due this country.

Enjoy

This message has been edited by RAZD, 01-03-2005 21:02 AM

This message has been edited by RAZD, 01-03-2005 21:05 AM

Edited by RAZD, : Changed email notification, updated sig

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Replies to this message:
	Message 2 by Silent H, posted 09-09-2004 5:57 AM		RAZD has replied

RAZD

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Posts: 20714

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Message 3 of 35 (141192)
09-09-2004 10:33 AM

Reply to: Message 2 by Silent H
09-09-2004 5:57 AM

More becoming available ...

Yes, I heard that in the interview, but the site I found didn't quote the document, so I had to go with what it said.

Now from CNN News (netscape online, click for full article):

Memos Show Bush Suspended From Flying

``On this date I ordered that 1st Lt. Bush be suspended from flight status due to failure to perform to USAF/TexANG standards and failure to meet annual physical examination ... as ordered,'' says an Aug. 1, 1972 memo by Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, who is now dead.

The White House said in February that it had released all records of Bush's service, but one of Killian's memos stated it was ``for record'' and another directing Bush to take the physical exam stated that it was ``for 1st Lt. George W. Bush.''

``I can't explain why that wouldn't be in his record, but they were found in Jerry Killian's personal records,'' White House communications director Dan Bartlett told CBS's ``60 Minutes II,'' which first obtained the memos.

A memo dated May 19, 1972, five days after Bush was supposed to have completed his physical, summarizes a telephone discussion with Bush about how he ``can get out of coming to drill from now through November.'' It says Bush was ``told he could do ET for three months or transfer.'' ET referred to equivalent training, a procedure for meeting training requirements without attending regularly scheduled drills.

The same memo says ``we talked abut him getting his flight physical situation fixed'' and quotes Bush as saying he would ``do that in Alabama if he stays in a flight status.'' It also says, I advised him of our investment in him and his commitment.''

Records released this year when Bush's military service re-emerged as a campaign issue contain no evidence that he showed up for duty at all for five months in mid-1972 and document only a few occasions later that year.

Asked about Killian's statement in a memo about the military's investment in Bush, Bartlett told CBS: ``For anybody to try to interpret or presume they know what somebody who is now dead was thinking in any of these memos, I think is very difficult to do.''

(bold and yellow for emphasis)

Gee, could the documents be missing from shrubs records because his file had been purged when he ran for Governor of Texas?

What is clear to me is that his superior officer went from a high opinion of shrub, giving him high marks, to a low opinion of shrub, suspending him from duty and refusing to cover for him, in just a couple of years -- now that shows leadership ability, eh?

Then there is the question of just what did lil-Georgie do for that campaign that was so important? Half days, missed days, people covering to do his job?

Wonder how many kids in Nam would have liked that opportunity?

Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand

RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

This message is a reply to:
	Message 2 by Silent H, posted 09-09-2004 5:57 AM		Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 4 by Silent H, posted 09-15-2004 5:53 AM		RAZD has replied

RAZD

Member (Idle past 1696 days)

Posts: 20714

From: the other end of the sidewalk

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Message 5 of 35 (142520)
09-15-2004 11:31 AM

Reply to: Message 4 by Silent H
09-15-2004 5:53 AM

Re: More becoming available ...

If I were machiavelian I would think that the neocons released them so that the whole issue would be discredited.

What impresses me is that there was no categorical denial from the white house of the details in the documents.

If they were hoaxes, then that would have been the proper course.

conclusions:

(1) they are factual even if the sources are questionable OR

(2) the truth is worse, and proving them wrong would be to show the truth.

enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand

RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

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	Message 4 by Silent H, posted 09-15-2004 5:53 AM		Silent H has not replied

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	Message 7 by paisano, posted 09-16-2004 10:58 AM	RAZD has not replied

RAZD

Member (Idle past 1696 days)

Posts: 20714

From: the other end of the sidewalk

Joined: 03-14-2004

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Message 10 of 35 (142817)
09-16-2004 7:21 PM

Reply to: Message 9 by Silent H
09-16-2004 1:59 PM

thanks

looks like you got it covered in my absence

maybe novels is the way to go. at least then I could get some money for it.

to add on to the machiavelian comment, I wouldn't put it past the neocons to be that devious, but I don't think they are that creative.

It is typical of a lack of imagination in the group. Bush sees things in black and white, and all the neocons think this is good. problem is the world is in color (has been since the invention of color in the 50's) so when he only has two choices of action, most likely both are wrong.

heh

This message has been edited by RAZD, 09-16-2004 06:24 PM

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand

RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

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	Message 9 by Silent H, posted 09-16-2004 1:59 PM		Silent H has not replied

RAZD

Member (Idle past 1696 days)

Posts: 20714

From: the other end of the sidewalk

Joined: 03-14-2004

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Message 16 of 35 (422549)
09-17-2007 5:51 PM

Reply to: Message 15 by Hyroglyphx
09-17-2007 5:14 PM

Re: Tal, in the other thread:

the point is - and has always been - nem, that there is no record that he finished his active duty. Not one person can verify that he finished his active duty: don't you think that is strange?

Enjoy.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
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RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
	Message 15 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-17-2007 5:14 PM		Hyroglyphx has replied

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	Message 18 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-17-2007 9:59 PM		RAZD has replied

RAZD

Member (Idle past 1696 days)

Posts: 20714

From: the other end of the sidewalk

Joined: 03-14-2004

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Message 20 of 35 (422660)
09-17-2007 10:12 PM

Reply to: Message 18 by Hyroglyphx
09-17-2007 9:59 PM

Re: Tal, in the other thread:

short answer: because he couldn't.

One of the other things that he failed to show up for was a medical exam to qualify him for being able to fly a plane. This is documented. His active flight status was revoked. In absentia. This too is documented.

Message 1
On August 1, 1972, Col. Killian grounded Lt. Bush for failure to perform to U.S. Air Force/Texas Air National Guard standards and for failure to take his annual physical as ordered.

He stopped going to those when they (gasp) started testing for drugs.

I presume you can add.

Enjoy.

Edited by RAZD, : quote

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RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
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This message is a reply to:
	Message 18 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-17-2007 9:59 PM		Hyroglyphx has replied

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	Message 22 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-18-2007 12:56 AM		RAZD has not replied

RAZD

Member (Idle past 1696 days)

Posts: 20714

From: the other end of the sidewalk

Joined: 03-14-2004

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Message 31 of 35 (423132)
09-19-2007 9:22 PM

Dan Rather Files Lawsuit

In a new twist on this old affair ...

Error 404 (Not Found)!!1

quote:
Dan Rather filed a $70 million lawsuit against CBS and his former bosses Wednesday, claiming they made him a "scapegoat" for a discredited story about President Bush's military service during the Vietnam War.

The 75-year-old Rather, whose final months were clouded by controversy over the story, said the actions of the defendants damaged his reputation and cost him significant financial loss.

The lawsuit, filed in state Supreme Court in Manhattan, claims the network intentionally botched the aftermath of the story about Bush's time in the Texas Air National Guard and had Rather take the fall to "pacify" the White House. He was removed from his job at "CBS Evening News" in March 2005.

The story relied on four documents, supposedly written by Bush's commander in the Texas Air National Guard, the late Lt. Col. Jerry Killian. Critics questioned the documents' authenticity and suggested they were forged.

A CBS review determined the story was neither fair nor accurate. CBS fired the story's producer and asked for the resignation of three executives because it could not authenticate documents used in the story, and Rather was forced out of the anchor chair he had occupied for 24 years.

Rather's lawsuit says he was forced to apologize, although "as defendants well knew, even if any aspect of the broadcast had not been accurate, which has never been established, Mr. Rather was not responsible for any such errors."

Thus we will see this replayed again eh?

Enjoy.

Join the effort to unravel AIDS/HIV, unfold Proteomes, fight Cancer,
compare Fiocruz Genome and fight Muscular Dystrophy with Team EvC! (click)

we are limited in our ability to understand
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RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

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