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Kitsune
Member (Idle past 4301 days)
Posts: 788
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 09-16-2007


Message 1 of 9 (422183)
09-16-2007 10:44 AM


Hi, I've been reading here for a little while. I wanted to say that as a resource, this forum and TalkOrigins must rank as some of the best on the internet.
I joined a forum a few months ago on a completely unrelated subject, but the list owner is a YEC and the forum seems to attract large numbers of these people. They slipped in all kinds of assertions and ideas that seemed weird and wild to me, but for the most part I ignored them. "If evolutionists are so confident then why haven't any of them taken Kent Hovind up on his $250,000 offer?" etc etc. And who was Kent Hovind anyway?
Once I discovered TalkOrigins, I did indeed find the confidence to start taking these arguments on, after educating myself in what creationism is all about and what their agenda is. There is a lot of good info here too from people who are obviously experts in their fields, and I'm glad I'll be able to come here if I get stuck in an argument with a creationist. It has to be said that none of them seem to want to debate with me LOL, though I give my evidence as politely as possible, so they need not fear being insulted by me.
Originally I have to admit I was a bit daunted by the sheer expertise here. I am a high school English teacher, not a scientist. But as such, the idea of children being taught creationist "science" while being kept in ignorance about evolution and so many other related disciplines, fills me with outrage. I think I might find my way to one or two threads where this is being discussed. In the meantime I've been making notes of facts, arguments and rebuttals here for use in case any of the YECs on my other forum give a challenge.
RAZD, Jar and all the rest, I love your posts. You guys are brilliant Thanks for all the work you put in here.
Linda.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by jar, posted 09-16-2007 10:53 AM Kitsune has not replied
 Message 3 by Taz, posted 09-16-2007 3:37 PM Kitsune has not replied
 Message 4 by RAZD, posted 09-16-2007 6:45 PM Kitsune has not replied
 Message 5 by Archer Opteryx, posted 09-16-2007 7:08 PM Kitsune has replied
 Message 6 by Minnemooseus, posted 09-16-2007 8:44 PM Kitsune has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 2 of 9 (422184)
09-16-2007 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Kitsune
09-16-2007 10:44 AM


Welcome home
Glad you dropped by. Pull up a stump and set a spell. Keep your feet to the fire and the smoke never gets in your eyes.
As an English teacher, be sure to find the posts from Archer Opterix. His recent series on "Story Telling" have been wondrous.
Drop into chat sometime and say hi.
AbE:
Also, as pointed out to me by another new member last night, the POTM forum is a great place to find the best of EvC. And Columnists Corner has great material as well.
Edited by jar, : add POTM info.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Kitsune, posted 09-16-2007 10:44 AM Kitsune has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 3 of 9 (422240)
09-16-2007 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Kitsune
09-16-2007 10:44 AM


LindaLou writes:
"If evolutionists are so confident then why haven't any of them taken Kent Hovind up on his $250,000 offer?" etc etc. And who was Kent Hovind anyway?
Just so you know, Kent Hovind put up the offer for someone that could prove a strawman version of evolution, not the current accepted theory of evolution. In other words, it's impossible to fullfill the requirements outlined by Hovind simply because they are imaginary.
Here is something to think about. If the guy thinks he can stump the entire foundation of biological science, how come he's never actually presented any data or scientific analysis for real scientists to review? Why is it that he always take his case to (what I call) the ignorant masses?
We don't allow non-surgeons to perform surgeries. Why on earth would we want to allow non-scientists to dictate what science should and should not be?
Edited by Tazmanius Devilus, : Fix some mistakes to impress an English teacher.

Disclaimer:
Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Kitsune, posted 09-16-2007 10:44 AM Kitsune has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 4 of 9 (422280)
09-16-2007 6:45 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Kitsune
09-16-2007 10:44 AM


Welcome to the fray, LindaLou
RAZD, Jar and all the rest, I love your posts. You guys are brilliant Thanks for all the work you put in here.
aw shucks (kicks toes)
"If evolutionists are so confident then why haven't any of them taken Kent Hovind up on his $250,000 offer?" etc etc. And who was Kent Hovind anyway?
Kent Hovind is a fraud, a con man, who is currently doing time. See Hovind's solitary considerations and More Shenanigans from the Hovind Camp for some information.
His "offer" is bogus: see
Kent Hovind's $250,000 Offer
Originally I have to admit I was a bit daunted by the sheer expertise here. I am a high school English teacher, not a scientist. But as such, the idea of children being taught creationist "science" while being kept in ignorance about evolution and so many other related disciplines, fills me with outrage. I think I might find my way to one or two threads where this is being discussed. In the meantime I've been making notes of facts, arguments and rebuttals here for use in case any of the YECs on my other forum give a challenge.
You will find there are contributions you can make here, all you need is the ability to find out information.
Enjoy.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Kitsune, posted 09-16-2007 10:44 AM Kitsune has not replied

  
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3598 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 5 of 9 (422290)
09-16-2007 7:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Kitsune
09-16-2007 10:44 AM


Thanks for de-lurking. Welcome to EvC!

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Kitsune, posted 09-16-2007 10:44 AM Kitsune has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Kitsune, posted 09-17-2007 2:58 AM Archer Opteryx has not replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 6 of 9 (422317)
09-16-2007 8:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Kitsune
09-16-2007 10:44 AM


The $250,000 topic
This forums main (now closed) topic about Kent Hovind and his $250,000 challenge can be found here.
Moose

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Kitsune, posted 09-16-2007 10:44 AM Kitsune has not replied

  
Kitsune
Member (Idle past 4301 days)
Posts: 788
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 09-16-2007


Message 7 of 9 (422428)
09-17-2007 2:58 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Archer Opteryx
09-16-2007 7:08 PM


Wow, thanks guys! It's great to hear from you, after I've been reading so many of your posts.
I'm still finding my way around the forum, and reading. Not so sure where I can contribute just yet, still looking. There are a lot of scientific discussions that are very informative but which I don't think I'd be able to contribute to in any meaningful way. (Doesn't stop the creationists though LOL.)
I think the YECs at my other forum were taking me for a ride at first, because I didn't really know what they were talking about. They would toss out tidbits like the Hovind "offer" and not explain who he is or what the offer is all about. Actually it only took me a few minutes of searching on the internet to find out about this, when I decided it was time to look, and counter what was being said. The YECs could do the same but obviously many of them refuse to consider anything other than what people on websites like AiG say. Very sad. But thanks for the info here too about Hovind, I will have a look.
It's difficult for someone like me to argue with YECs because, while they often cut-and-paste from creationist websites without actually understanding the material themselves, it's written by people who deliberately take the facts and twist them around. So it's up to me to find out what the actual facts are. Not having a background in science, that's why TalkOrigins and this forum are so helpful to me. Must be nice to have all that knowledge at your fingertips without having to look it all up. However, I think one characteristic you and I share is a love of learning, that much is clear. The learning never stops and it's such a pleasure. I certainly have learned a lot since I started researching rebuttals to creationist arguments. Also, I can see how valuable my basic education was. Just elementary and high school science, plus a continuing armchair interest in archaeology, astronomy, and any scientific discoveries in the news. Sometimes that's all a person needs. It's scary to see how lacking in even the most basic facts some of these people are.
Archer Opterix, can you tell me where this storytelling thread is that Jar mentioned? I can't seem to find it.
Thanks again for the welcome! I expect I'll be reading much more than I'll be talking. But I wanted to let you know that people like me do come here and read and learn. You might be arguing with a steadfast YEC who will not accept the facts in front of their eyes, but just keep in mind that someone else is probably finding the info very useful
Linda.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Archer Opteryx, posted 09-16-2007 7:08 PM Archer Opteryx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by AdminPD, posted 09-17-2007 6:30 AM Kitsune has replied

  
AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 8 of 9 (422449)
09-17-2007 6:30 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Kitsune
09-17-2007 2:58 AM


Welcome to EvC
Welcome LindaLou,
Glad you decided to add to our diversity. We have a wide variety of forums for your debating pleasure.
Archer's storytelling series begins here in Message 68 of the "In the Center of the Garden (Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and the Tree of Life)" thread.
As members, we are guests on this board and as guests we are asked to put forth our best behavior. Please read the Forum Guidelines carefully and understand the wishes of our host. Abide by the Forum Guidelines and you will be a welcome addition.
In the purple signature box below, you'll find some links that will help make your journey here pleasant.
Again, welcome and fruitful debating. Purple

Usually, in a well-conducted debate, speakers are either emotionally uncommitted or can preserve sufficient detachment to maintain a coolly academic approach.-- Encyclopedia Brittanica, on debate

Links for comments on moderation procedures and/or responding to admin msgs:
  • General discussion of moderation procedures
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    Helpful links for New Members: Forum Guidelines, Short Questions,
    [thread=-19,-112], [thread=-17,-45], and Practice Makes Perfect

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 7 by Kitsune, posted 09-17-2007 2:58 AM Kitsune has replied

    Replies to this message:
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    Kitsune
    Member (Idle past 4301 days)
    Posts: 788
    From: Leicester, UK
    Joined: 09-16-2007


    Message 9 of 9 (422455)
    09-17-2007 7:55 AM
    Reply to: Message 8 by AdminPD
    09-17-2007 6:30 AM


    Re: Welcome to EvC
    That's great, thanks for all the links. I'd seen the thread about the Center of the Garden but wasn't aware that is was what Jar had referred to; I'll check it out.
    I have also gathered that (unsurprisingly, given this forum's name) there are creationists in the Admin here too. Sorry about the generalisations in my last post. These things are what I've experienced on another forum, but I don't intend to apply them and throw out insults here. Though if I see anyone mentioning Hovind I'll be happy to share what I've found out LOL; however, I suspect others here would do just as well if not better.
    I am very much a "jack of all trades." I went to a liberal arts college in the US and studied many subjects, and have continued to do so throughout my life. I know a little about a lot of things. Unfortunately, in having such a broad focus, it means that I have no expertise in anything, apart from maybe pedagogy. I probably would show up my ignorance at a forum specifically for English literature graduates, and that's what my degree is in. I'm discovering, here, what a liability this can be at times. I haven't found a thread yet where I feel I can talk with any authority, but at least now that I have registered I will be able to make a comment if I see an appropriate opportunity.
    Again, my main point in posting here was to say thank you to all the "evos" for the info. I have been making an FAQ for myself to refer to based on it and am soaking everything else up that I read, as much as I am able. Maybe some of it will come in really handy one day? Who knows. As far as I'm concerned you can never learn enough

    This message is a reply to:
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