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Author Topic:   Morality -- in spite of the bible?
Taz
Member (Idle past 3319 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 16 of 19 (422260)
09-16-2007 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by arachnophilia
09-16-2007 6:13 PM


Re: not entirely correct
arach writes:
one traditional reading is that abraham, who is known for arguing with god, was supposed to argue here.
This is the first I've heard of this, and let me just say that this interpretation goes against everything both judaism and christianity have taught for thousands of years. The test was to see if abraham would argue with god?
this has a lot to do with the fact that sarah became pregnant with isaac shortly after abimelech slept with her. abraham probably didn't think isaac was is child.
So... this interpretation would make Abraham out to be a heartless bastard. He's heartless enough to blood sacrifice someone else's child.

Disclaimer:
Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by arachnophilia, posted 09-16-2007 6:13 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by arachnophilia, posted 09-16-2007 6:49 PM Taz has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 19 (422266)
09-16-2007 6:24 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by arachnophilia
09-16-2007 6:13 PM


From the Book of Dylan
one traditional reading is that abraham, who is known for arguing with god, was supposed to argue here. and that abraham actually failed this test.
quote:
Oh God said to Abraham, "Kill me a son"
Abe says, "Man, you must be puttin' me on"
God say, "No." Abe say, "What?"
God say, "You can do what you want Abe, but
The next time you see me comin' you better run"
Well Abe says, "Where do you want this killin' done?"
(I've always liked this stanza.)
Interesting point, arach. Thanks for that.

You can observe a lot by watching. -- Yogi Berra

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by arachnophilia, posted 09-16-2007 6:13 PM arachnophilia has not replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1371 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 18 of 19 (422282)
09-16-2007 6:49 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Taz
09-16-2007 6:18 PM


Re: not entirely correct
This is the first I've heard of this, and let me just say that this interpretation goes against everything both judaism and christianity have taught for thousands of years.
well, christianity, maybe. but i first heard about that particular reading from jewish midrashim, so.
The test was to see if abraham would argue with god?
sort of. the test was to see if abraham had faith that god had fulfilled his promise to give him an heir. look at how willing abram is to argue with god in genesis 18. god says he'll destroy sodom, and abram says "wait a minute, lot lives there," and argues god down for the sake of his nephew. why not for his own son?
So... this interpretation would make Abraham out to be a heartless bastard. He's heartless enough to blood sacrifice someone else's child.
i fail to see the difference, actually. either way, he's pretty heartless. the idea really comes about in thinking that god doesn't want blind obedience, something that seems to be evidenced with all the patriarchs and early prophets, at least one of whom literally wrestles with god. but all talk, and dispute, and quibble, and argue with god, for the sake of their people.
it's like god is the judge -- satan is the prosecution. the prophet or patriarch is supposed to be the defense. abraham fails in that regard.
it's a little bit of a strange way to look at the bible when all you've been taught is blind obedience. but i think it's probably more accurate to the times and more faithfully represents the attitude of the text. this is just another in a long line of "evil god" paradoxes, such as the one i pointed out in genesis 2 and 3.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Taz, posted 09-16-2007 6:18 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Taz, posted 09-16-2007 7:20 PM arachnophilia has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3319 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 19 of 19 (422294)
09-16-2007 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by arachnophilia
09-16-2007 6:49 PM


Re: not entirely correct
arach writes:
it's a little bit of a strange way to look at the bible when all you've been taught is blind obedience.
Well, that's why in the end I decided to put my conscience above my faith.

Disclaimer:
Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by arachnophilia, posted 09-16-2007 6:49 PM arachnophilia has not replied

  
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