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Author Topic:   Aliens and the Bible
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 91 of 147 (420495)
09-08-2007 6:53 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by Rob
09-07-2007 8:56 PM


quote:
Because millions of others can see Him too. In fact, when I read the Bible, I see that people 6 thousand years ago saw Him and they can explain to me what it is I am seeing with language that captures Him.
So what? Millions more people don't "see Him".
Most people in the world are NOT Christians, did you know that?
But, numbers of believers isn't a valid reason to believe anything anyway. Lots of people used to believe that the Earth was the center of the Universe. That didn't mke that belief correct.
quote:
It's not like I am the only one to become a fool. Maybe one of the last... but not the only one.
I am not sure that this is something to be proud of.
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein.
Take comments concerning this warning to the Moderation Thread.
AdminPD
Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Rob, posted 09-07-2007 8:56 PM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by Rob, posted 09-08-2007 10:15 AM nator has not replied

  
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5849 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 92 of 147 (420508)
09-08-2007 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by nator
09-08-2007 6:53 AM


Nator:
Most people in the world are NOT Christians, did you know that?
And fewer people than that are atheists...
And I don't know about globally, but in the US, the majority believe in special creation despite what the institution of 'so called science' peddles as science. Page Not Found: 404 Not Found -
Like you said, it doesn't really matter... ad populum is a fallacy typically reserved for the appeal to concensus made by relativists.
Ps. you might want to read through the thread on 'converting raw energy' that I started in origins of life. It'll help explain why people don't believe you and folks like molbiogirl.
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein.
Take comments concerning this warning to the Moderation Thread.
AdminPD
Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by nator, posted 09-08-2007 6:53 AM nator has not replied

  
molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2642 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 93 of 147 (420584)
09-08-2007 2:58 PM


Our Alien Overlords Are Here
Vash, check it out!
Video News - CNN
Look over Bush's shoulder!

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Ihategod, posted 09-09-2007 12:37 AM molbiogirl has not replied

  
Ihategod
Member (Idle past 6030 days)
Posts: 235
Joined: 08-15-2007


Message 94 of 147 (420681)
09-09-2007 12:37 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by molbiogirl
09-08-2007 2:58 PM


Re: Our Alien Overlords Are Here
And so the plot thickens...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by molbiogirl, posted 09-08-2007 2:58 PM molbiogirl has not replied

  
Ihategod
Member (Idle past 6030 days)
Posts: 235
Joined: 08-15-2007


Message 95 of 147 (420685)
09-09-2007 12:51 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by Vacate
09-07-2007 10:24 AM


May if I may, perhaps, may interject....
But then in a sense aren't you saying that the true message of the bible changes along with the evolution of language?
Language is the vehicle for ideas. It is how we express ourselves from the surface to the very depth of our souls. There is no such thing as "evolution of language."
I agree with you in the idea that had there been a UFO in those times they would have ascribed it to miracles.
They probably would have described them using images and ideas that were and could be related. Back then, perhaps, the only thing flying was a bird.
However, if you are saying that this is in fact what the bible is saying - what else is incorrect? How much of the bible is open for UFO minded interpetation?
Putting in place UFO's where they could be interpreted would not invalidate the rest.
By opening this thread I attempted to discuss the ramifications of UFO's and aliens in a classical, modern, and unorthodox sense. This thread has been flooded with egoistic humanistic opinions that don't allow for the possibility, when it is apparent that the existence of said topics can not be known. Furthermore, by our limited understanding aliens and ufo's could very well be described in the bible. As far as I know nothing in the bible indicates anything is supernatural. This term was adopted by human thought.
I would like less posturing of skepticism and more philosophizing on the potential for life and how it relates to the bible. If you don't want to talk about it, leave.
P.S. Rob, your writing is wonderful. Your my second favourite hero.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Vacate, posted 09-07-2007 10:24 AM Vacate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by anglagard, posted 09-09-2007 1:17 AM Ihategod has replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 837 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 96 of 147 (420693)
09-09-2007 1:17 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by Ihategod
09-09-2007 12:51 AM


Re: May if I may, perhaps, may interject....
HEWG writes:
Language is the vehicle for ideas. It is how we express ourselves from the surface to the very depth of our souls. There is no such thing as "evolution of language."
And I guess no such thing as linguistics. So Old English = Middle English = Modern English in your UFO infested world.
They probably would have described them using images and ideas that were and could be related. Back then, perhaps, the only thing flying was a bird.
Or a bat, or a bug, or a ...
By opening this thread I attempted to discuss the ramifications of UFO's and aliens in a classical, modern, and unorthodox sense. This thread has been flooded with egoistic humanistic opinions that don't allow for the possibility, when it is apparent that the existence of said topics can not be known. Furthermore, by our limited understanding aliens and ufo's could very well be described in the bible. As far as I know nothing in the bible indicates anything is supernatural. This term was adopted by human thought.
How postmodernist (sophist) of you, nothing can be known, therefore all attempts to make the world better by learning about it are futile. I think it's time to go back to the basics, and that means Socrates (via Plato).
I would like less posturing of skepticism and more philosophizing on the potential for life and how it relates to the bible. If you don't want to talk about it, leave.
Sorry, if you don't want any critical analysis of your preponderances, you are in the wrong place, not us. Also, as it has been pointed out, not all positions are equal, otherwise Charles Manson's claim to be Jesus is equally valid as g=(m1)(m2)/r squared.
Skepticism is a part of philosophy, especially the philosophy of science. Gullibly accepting all prepositions as equally true is part of drinking kool aid laced with cyanide.

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon
The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Ihategod, posted 09-09-2007 12:51 AM Ihategod has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by Ihategod, posted 09-09-2007 1:32 AM anglagard has replied

  
Ihategod
Member (Idle past 6030 days)
Posts: 235
Joined: 08-15-2007


Message 97 of 147 (420697)
09-09-2007 1:32 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by anglagard
09-09-2007 1:17 AM


Re: May if I may, perhaps, may interject....
And I guess no such thing as linguistics. So Old English = Middle English = Modern English in your UFO infested world.
http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/linguistics
linguistics is the study of... not the variations within an allele over time in populations.
http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/evolution
I could argue that language has gotten worse. The japanese language is far more profound in its simplicity demanding emphasis.
How postmodernist (sophist) of you, nothing can be known, therefore all attempts to make the world better by learning about it are futile. I think it's time to go back to the basics, and that means Socrates (via Plato).
Nice straw man. Set 'em up knock 'em down.
Sorry, if you don't want any critical analysis of your preponderances, you are in the wrong place, not us. Also, as it has been pointed out, not all positions are equal, otherwise Charles Manson's claim to be Jesus is equally valid as g=(m1)(m2)/r squared.
critical analysis is fine. Delivering your cynicism is off topic. Open up a thread entitled "My Opinion Not Relating To Aliens and the Bible."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by anglagard, posted 09-09-2007 1:17 AM anglagard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by molbiogirl, posted 09-09-2007 1:53 AM Ihategod has not replied
 Message 99 by anglagard, posted 09-09-2007 1:58 AM Ihategod has replied

  
molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2642 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 98 of 147 (420700)
09-09-2007 1:53 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by Ihategod
09-09-2007 1:32 AM


Still havin a little trouble with the google, eh?
Content hidden (see "peek" if you must). Violation of forum rule 10, and nothing that moves the debate forward. Stop it, you and whomever else who posts like message - Adminnemooseus
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Hid content and added comment and warning.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Ihategod, posted 09-09-2007 1:32 AM Ihategod has not replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 837 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 99 of 147 (420701)
09-09-2007 1:58 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by Ihategod
09-09-2007 1:32 AM


Re: May if I may, perhaps, may interject....
OK, you have shown you don't know squat about linguistics.
You have also rightly shown that further discussion in this vein is off topic.
So, if the Bible writes about extraterrestrials flying about in metal spaceships, why does the Christian religion have no historic tradition of worshiping space aliens? Did they lose interest after the Old Testament?
Also, while IMO, life in the universe may be quite common, technologically advanced life (meaning able to manipulate its environment on a grand scale, like space travel) may not only be rare, but for all we know, unique.
Of course, I have studied the history of the earth and understand how evolution (a concept you even deny linguistics) may have been accelerated due to stress. The precise level of environmental stress in the history of this planet may be difficult to reproduce without either too little for 'fast evolution' or too much for 'damn, have to start over again from scratch.'
Then again, both time and space in a universal sense is beyond my comprehension, and from looking at this forum, is even much worse for many others. There is plenty of room and time for that technological alien to exist. I just don't understand why they only reveal themselves to bumpkins with unusual, and even in some cases sexually weird, fantasy lives, instead of the UN building.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Ihategod, posted 09-09-2007 1:32 AM Ihategod has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Ihategod, posted 09-09-2007 11:14 AM anglagard has replied

  
Ihategod
Member (Idle past 6030 days)
Posts: 235
Joined: 08-15-2007


Message 100 of 147 (420739)
09-09-2007 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by anglagard
09-09-2007 1:58 AM


Re: May if I may, perhaps, may interject....
So, if the Bible writes about extraterrestrials flying about in metal spaceships, why does the Christian religion have no historic tradition of worshiping space aliens? Did they lose interest after the Old Testament?
I'd like to show the fallacy of your question and your not the only one that has a problem grasping this. When you imagine a flying saucer, you use imagery that you think would best describe how you can express the idea. In the Toe, the implications are that we humans are the highest evolved. Be that as it isn't, this does not indicate that there aren't other things, people, or gods out there or right here. We have five senses and a critical mind. We are three dimensional, and some would suggest up to five. Other beings could be well beyond this. Your thinking as if there is no way alien life could be better than ours. If the Old testament writers saw another manifestation of God or God's messengers or God's created then they would also be limited in their descriptions. If I saw an angel I could only use my knowledge and experience to describe it to you.
What people today call aliens could be like what ezekiel saw and what ezekiel and people today see could actually be agents of God, God's created, or angels, or even demons. There is nothing in saying aliens, that contradicts the bible, it is only our limited nature that fails to grasp the concept.
Also, not to toot my own horn, but I am a writer and have studied writing extensively and I disagree with your assessment of linguistics. It variates but does not get any better.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by anglagard, posted 09-09-2007 1:58 AM anglagard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by jar, posted 09-09-2007 11:17 AM Ihategod has not replied
 Message 102 by anglagard, posted 09-09-2007 2:07 PM Ihategod has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 101 of 147 (420740)
09-09-2007 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by Ihategod
09-09-2007 11:14 AM


Not what the TOE says.
In the Toe, the implications are that we humans are the highest evolved.
No, that is NOT what the TOE says or implies.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Ihategod, posted 09-09-2007 11:14 AM Ihategod has not replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 837 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 102 of 147 (420768)
09-09-2007 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Ihategod
09-09-2007 11:14 AM


Re: May if I may, perhaps, may interject....
HEWG writes:
What people today call aliens could be like what ezekiel saw and what ezekiel and people today see could actually be agents of God, God's created, or angels, or even demons. There is nothing in saying aliens, that contradicts the bible, it is only our limited nature that fails to grasp the concept.
They could also be ghosts, poltergeists, faeries, hobgoblins, or manifestations of the flying spaghetti monster. Unless you can precisely define and measure what you are talking about, there is no way that anyone else can distinguish your 'flights of fancy' from the ravings of an inmate at a lunatic asylum. That is not to say that imagination is a bad thing, just that all concepts are not equally valid in terms of apprehending reality. So go ahead and use your imagination to your heart's content, just don't expect others to find your arguments concerning the validity of your imaginings at all convincing.
Also, not to toot my own horn, but I am a writer and have studied writing extensively and I disagree with your assessment of linguistics. It variates but does not get any better.
I think the problem is not that you are a writer, it is that you apparently have reading comprehension issues. You have shown that you have difficulty understanding the philosophic implications of the position 'all ideas are equally valid.' You also clearly do not understand the concept of evolution in either the broad sense or in the narrow sense employed in the ToE. Evolution does not mean 'moving toward better' it means 'change in response to environmental factors.' In the stricter ToE sense, evolution means 'change in hereditary traits from generation to generation' (among other suitable definitions). Languages and life may or may not have gotten 'better,' which is a subjective human judgment at best, but languages and life have most certainly 'changed in response to environmental factors.' That means contrary to your assertions, that languages and life evolve.
You were a part of the discussion on the definition of evolution and apparently you also did actually read my post concerning the inequality of belief systems in terms of reality, which you argued was a straw man. How is it you failed to comprehend what was being written and failed to apprehend their relevance?
Your thinking as if there is no way alien life could be better than ours.
Where did I say, imply, or even remotely address, this statement?
IMO your speculations concerning the nature of aliens and UFOs are presented and argued as facts when they are simply fantasies.
Edited by anglagard, : Add quote
Edited by anglagard, : clarity

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon
The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Ihategod, posted 09-09-2007 11:14 AM Ihategod has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by Ihategod, posted 09-09-2007 2:59 PM anglagard has replied

  
Ihategod
Member (Idle past 6030 days)
Posts: 235
Joined: 08-15-2007


Message 103 of 147 (420781)
09-09-2007 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by anglagard
09-09-2007 2:07 PM


Re: May if I may, perhaps, may interject....
You are really annoying.
http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/evolution
Evolution does not mean 'moving toward better' it means 'change in response to environmental factors.'
Supplementing a definition for your argument is weak and pathetic. How does evolution infer that things progress yet get worse? That's oxymoronic.
there is no way that anyone else can distinguish your 'flights of fancy' from the ravings of an inmate at a lunatic asylum.
Under what standard are you calling upon to judge anybody? How do you know that people who experience paranormal activity are lunatics? I think your uber-skepticism is lunacy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by anglagard, posted 09-09-2007 2:07 PM anglagard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by DrJones*, posted 09-09-2007 3:08 PM Ihategod has not replied
 Message 106 by anglagard, posted 09-09-2007 3:29 PM Ihategod has replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 104 of 147 (420784)
09-09-2007 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by Ihategod
09-09-2007 2:59 PM


Re: May if I may, perhaps, may interject....
How does evolution infer that things progress yet get worse? That's oxymoronic.
As already mentioned over on the definition of evolution thread you agreed that
Change in a population's genetic traits across generations
was an acceptable definiton of evolution. Where in there is progress? or better/worse?

Live every week like it's Shark Week!
Just a monkey in a long line of kings.
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Ihategod, posted 09-09-2007 2:59 PM Ihategod has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 105 of 147 (420785)
09-09-2007 3:14 PM


Guys, my troll-meter is and has been for sometime now pointing at the red area. Please stop feeding the troll.

Disclaimer:
Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

  
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