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Author | Topic: The C.C.O.I. (Christian Cult Of Ignorance) and Willful Ignorance | |||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Okay. So would you say that it is irrelevant whether God is listening and that our focus should be on what we are asking and why? Yes and what that tells us about what to do next.
Perhaps the question should be: # Is God Listening? Does It Matter? Good question. Does it matter? If so, why? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Jar writes: Prayer allows me to have a quiet time of introspection. o reflect on my shortcomings and how I can do better in the future. Prayer allows me to think of others besides myself and to be empathetic.
Does it matter? If so, why?
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
But do any of those require anyone, particularly some god to be on the other end?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
If you are asking me whether God is required to exist in order for humans to make a difference in the environment known as reality, the answer is no. My personal belief is that God permeates reality itself, but that is a personal belief and is irrelevant to your question.
Introspection and meditation appear to be capable of solitary reflection.
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jar writes: Phat you keep saying that God has foreknowledge. In believe that God has foreknowledge, but i confess to not knowing what His foreknowledge is. I can't declare that God fore knowingly creates some people to be damned. IF it turns out that some people do end up damned, I concur that it will be the result of our actions rather than Gods foreknowing. Does it not make sense that a Creator of all that is seen and unseen who by definition transcends time would not know what is to come, however? We are only responsible with our behavior in the present moment, however, so we cannot know or determine what God would choose to know or be able to know. Our speculations about Gods modus operendi are just speculations.
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Does God create all?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
This is a good question. Does God create every single darned thing that we can list? In other words, does God create the very train of thought that I am now attempting to verbalize? I shall say not! (I could be wrong, however! )
Do you see what I mean? These are questions that I cannot answer. On a cosmic Job Resume, what are the specific qualifications and duties of a Creator?
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
All that is irrelevant Phat.
Does God create the critter? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Jar writes: Indirectly, yes. God is the Creator of all that is seen and unseen. Does God create the critter? As a qualifier and again...(this is not irrelevant ) God does not create our thoughts. We do. IMB
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
As a qualifier and again...(this is not irrelevant ) God does not create our thoughts. We do. IMB But that IS irrelvant. If God foreknows our actions then it does not matter is we think we create them. AbE: let me try again to step you through this. If your god is the Creatorand your god foreknows everything you will do and your god goes ahead and creates you knowing that you will be damned then your god is EVIL. It doesn't matter who makes the choices, if your god foreknows what those choices will be and knows they will lead to you being damned, and still creates you, then your god is EVIL. Edited by jar, : try to expand the explanation Edited by jar, : appalin spallin Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Recently in Chat you placed one of the televangelists, Dr. James Montgomery Boice, on the table for discussion. A hallmark and cornerstone of his preaching is
God alone is sovereign over all of His creation, and that includes individual acts of salvation. That single sentence IMHO shows the absolute evil nature of both the Evangelical God as created by Dr. James Montgomery Boice and others, and the total bankruptcy and despicable nature of such preachers. In that oe sentence JMB proclaims that the god of JMB is the one creator, that the god of JMB creates everything and that the god of JMB then picks and chooses and is solely responsible for individual acts of salvation. If what he says is true, then that god can only be judged evil. To reapeat what JMB says:
God alone is sovereign over all of His creation, and that includes individual acts of salvation. JMB's god creates all. JMBs god then picks from what he has created and individually grants salvation. However, JMB's god still created all. It is the old image of the drought de seigneur, the feudal idea that the noble has total rights over those under him to use, kill, rape, pillage as he wishes. JMB's god is but a reversion to that old idea, one that certainly was abandoned by the mid 1700s everywhere but in religion. It is the old idea that your life is only continued by the whim of the overlord and so forfeit at that overlord's whim. Edited by jar, : fix subtitle Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Quetzal Member (Idle past 5899 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Isn't he just expressing the Calvanist viewpoint? It doesn't matter what you do or who you are, your salvation etc is pre-ordained at birth (or before)? You can never know whether you are one of the elect. In essence, it doesn't strike me as any more evil than any of the other ultra-calvanist views. Just really extreme (and, as you know, IMO on the nuttier end of Protestantism). Edited by Admin, : Hide content of post by non-participant.
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Jar writes: JMB's god creates all. JMBs god then picks from what he has created and individually grants salvation. However, JMB's god still created all. It is the old image of the drought de seigneur, the feudal idea that the noble has total rights over those under him to use, kill, rape, pillage as he wishes. JMB's god is but a reversion to that old idea, one that certainly was abandoned by the mid 1700s everywhere but in religion. It is the old idea that your life is only continued by the whim of the overlord and so forfeit at that overlord's whim. I still find it hard to get used to the idea of a God (or human map of God) that is rational and non-dogmatic. Are you thus saying that God creates humans and has no foreknowledge of our eventual destiny? If that is true, it seemingly limits God from being in the future as well as the past and present. (or maybe its just our lack of comprehension and perspective. Perhaps we are unable to declare the future....on behalf of ourselves or God.
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
If that is true, it seemingly limits God from being in the future as well as the past and present. (or maybe its just our lack of comprehension and perspective. Perhaps we are unable to declare the future....on behalf of ourselves or God. Sheesh. That is irrelevant Phat. If what JMB preaches is true then God is evil. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I really have not listened to much of what JMB says recently. I used to listen to him a few years ago, but he died and now I see his sermons online.
I am still learning how to discriminate what is actually said from what is meant or the implications thereof. If you have any suggested online sermons for me to check out, pass them along.
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