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Author
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Topic: AL (Artificial Life) and the people who love it
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: 05-09-2004
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Message 16 of 26 (417605)
08-23-2007 12:41 PM
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Reply to: Message 13 by ringo
08-23-2007 12:14 PM
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Re: You beat me to it!
Look at them goalposts run. What goalposts? God made everything from nothing, that has always been the goalpost, we will never be able to do that, since we've already determined, that matter can neither be created, or destroyed. You act as if I represent creationists or something, I do not. I just believe in God.
That's like saying your supper isn't really supper unless you grew all the food yourself. That is a bad analogy, I won't even debate it.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 13 by ringo, posted 08-23-2007 12:14 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 18 by ringo, posted 08-23-2007 12:51 PM | | riVeRraT has replied |
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: 05-09-2004
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Message 17 of 26 (417606)
08-23-2007 12:47 PM
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Reply to: Message 14 by Taz
08-23-2007 12:14 PM
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Re: You beat me to it!
But these same compounds have been created countless times before in various apparatuses (apparati?). The word "created" is a dangerous word. Technically speaking, they were only put together, or made, not created from scratch like the OP says.
The point of the experiment isn't to disprove god the creator, riverrat. I never said it was.
Anyway, I'm just curious. Are you against genetic engineering of any kind? I don't know enough to have a stance on it. But surely there is a line that should be drawn somewhere. Obviously not if helps us. But I want to be assured that any "created" life, will not destroy us. The movie Frankenstein comes to mind.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 14 by Taz, posted 08-23-2007 12:14 PM | | Taz has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 18 of 26 (417609)
08-23-2007 12:51 PM
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Reply to: Message 16 by riVeRraT
08-23-2007 12:41 PM
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Re: You beat me to it!
riVeRraT writes: God made everything from nothing, that has always been the goalpost, we will never be able to do that... No, that's never been the goalpost. The goalpost is "Can we create life?" Whether or not it has been created before by gods or monsters is completely irrelevant.
quote:
That's like saying your supper isn't really supper unless you grew all the food yourself.
That is a bad analogy, I won't even debate it. If you don't debate it, it stands. 
“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels -------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 16 by riVeRraT, posted 08-23-2007 12:41 PM | | riVeRraT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 19 by riVeRraT, posted 08-23-2007 1:12 PM | | ringo has replied |
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: 05-09-2004
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Message 19 of 26 (417614)
08-23-2007 1:12 PM
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Reply to: Message 18 by ringo
08-23-2007 12:51 PM
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Re: You beat me to it!
No, that's never been the goalpost. The goalpost is "Can we create life?" Whether or not it has been created before by gods or monsters is completely irrelevant. It's not my goalpost, that is the problem. My belief's in God coincide with, where did the whole universe come from to begin with anyway? Not, let's build so called life in a petri dish. I have always thought that was possible. The movie Johnny Five comes to mind. Define "create". Tell me something, if this life made in a petri dish, never reproduces, or evolves, is it life?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 18 by ringo, posted 08-23-2007 12:51 PM | | ringo has replied |
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Parasomnium
Member Posts: 2224 Joined: 07-15-2003
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Message 20 of 26 (417619)
08-23-2007 1:23 PM
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Reply to: Message 19 by riVeRraT
08-23-2007 1:12 PM
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Re: You beat me to it!
riVeRtaT writes: Tell me something, if this life made in a petri dish, never reproduces, or evolves, is it life? I resent that! I don't evolve, and I'm not planning on reproducing. But I'm very much alive, thank you.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 19 by riVeRraT, posted 08-23-2007 1:12 PM | | riVeRraT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 22 by riVeRraT, posted 08-23-2007 1:50 PM | | Parasomnium has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 21 of 26 (417620)
08-23-2007 1:27 PM
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Reply to: Message 19 by riVeRraT
08-23-2007 1:12 PM
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Re: You beat me to it!
riVeRraT writes: My belief's in God coincide with, where did the whole universe come from to begin with anyway? Not, let's build so called life in a petri dish. It's the same thing, really.
Define "create". For all intents and purposes, create = make. Forget that ex nihilo crap.
Tell me something, if this life made in a petri dish, never reproduces, or evolves, is it life? That's a very interesting question. If it doesn't evolve, is it really life? If they can make it reproduce perfectly, they can prevent it from evolving.
“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels -------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 19 by riVeRraT, posted 08-23-2007 1:12 PM | | riVeRraT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 23 by riVeRraT, posted 08-23-2007 1:53 PM | | ringo has replied |
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: 05-09-2004
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Re: You beat me to it!
I don't evolve, and I'm not planning on reproducing. Evolve can be a relative term, so you mean to tell me you haven't changed at all since you were young? Plus planning on reproducing, and be able to, are two separate issues.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 20 by Parasomnium, posted 08-23-2007 1:23 PM | | Parasomnium has not replied |
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: 05-09-2004
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Message 23 of 26 (417626)
08-23-2007 1:53 PM
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Reply to: Message 21 by ringo
08-23-2007 1:27 PM
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Re: You beat me to it!
For all intents and purposes, create = make. Forget that ex nihilo crap. Not to me, when it comes to this subject.
If they can make it reproduce perfectly, they can prevent it from evolving. Somehow, I just doubt that. I bet you it will be a mule.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 21 by ringo, posted 08-23-2007 1:27 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 24 by ringo, posted 08-23-2007 2:10 PM | | riVeRraT has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 24 of 26 (417630)
08-23-2007 2:10 PM
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Reply to: Message 23 by riVeRraT
08-23-2007 1:53 PM
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Re: You beat me to it!
riVeRraT writes: quote:
For all intents and purposes, create = make. Forget that ex nihilo crap.
Not to me, when it comes to this subject. There you go then, you're setting your own goalposts. You're setting up the requirements so that science can't win.
quote:
If they can make it reproduce perfectly, they can prevent it from evolving.
Somehow, I just doubt that. I bet you it will be a mule. Oh c'mon. Even I know more biology than that.
“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels -------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 23 by riVeRraT, posted 08-23-2007 1:53 PM | | riVeRraT has not replied |
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molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2671 days) Posts: 1909 From: MO Joined: 06-06-2007
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Message 25 of 26 (417637)
08-23-2007 3:08 PM
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Reply to: Message 12 by riVeRraT
08-23-2007 12:00 PM
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Re: You beat me to it!
They are only combining existing compounds, and making a biological machine. No. We start from elements. You know. The periodic chart? (And when I say we, I mean we. I work on ribozymes.)
The only thing I am worried about is if their so called "life" is successful, will it run amok? (7 messages later)
Tell me something, if this life made in a petri dish, never reproduces, or evolves, is it life? Which is it, rat?
Evolve can be a relative term, so you mean to tell me you haven't changed at all since you were young? You know better than that, rat. I am not going to address the definition of evolution here. AL will eat, "breathe", move, reproduce. By even the most rudimentary definition, this constitutes life. And it will evolve (insertions, deletions, point mutations, etc.). After all, nobody's perfect, not even AL.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 12 by riVeRraT, posted 08-23-2007 12:00 PM | | riVeRraT has not replied |
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Adminnemooseus
Administrator Posts: 3976 Joined: 09-26-2002
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Message 26 of 26 (417644)
08-23-2007 3:32 PM
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Thread copied to the AL (Artificial Life) and the people who love it thread in the Origin of Life forum, this copy of the thread has been closed.
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