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Author | Topic: the rocks speak | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
John Inactive Member |
quote: Did I say that? Nope. I said ask an archeaologist about about archeaology, similar to the way one might ask a chemist about chemistry-- which you certainly need to do-- or the way one might ask a cosmologist about galaxies, or a manicurist about nail-polish. It was an example, brainiac. It is relevant because you brought up the idea that many graduates leave the university unconvinced of evolution. You do not qualify this as 'graduates who obtained a degree in relevant fields.' You state, simply, 'many graduates.' Thus committing the error you accuse me of committing-- that of asking questions of people not qualified to answer. I suggest that you ask the right questions of the right people.
quote: It actually includes several species of genus 'homo' and 'australopithicus' extending back a few million years. Beyond that, the torch is for the most part handed to other specialists. It does in fact have to do with the biological evolution of one particular species-- humans. Mostly, archeaologists stick to the last couple of million years, and to a handful of species, but the branch of physical anthropology tackles the whole evolutionary sequence.
quote: I'm being emotional? Look in the mirror bud.
quote: Like hell. Your over-the-top reaction to a comment about the exodus is plenty disclosure.
quote: Try to learn English. Maybe try looking up non sequitur.
quote: 1) The difference is the presence of carbon in the molecules.2) Real chemists distinguish because it is convenient, and probably betrays some history of scientific thought as well. 3) There is no clear distinction. An organic carbon atom is just like an inorganic carbon atom, and its component parts are just like the component parts of any other atom. 4) Who said I face a conundrum? As it appears to me, you have to provide evidence for some essential division of matter that no one has yet noticed. So what is organic matter? Lets see. I die. I rot. I turn to dirt. Is my matter still organic? Once organic always organic? Say we take a molecule from my body and break it into its component atoms. Those atoms look and behave just like atoms you can get from a rock. What is the difference? A plant takes in atmospheric CO2 and converts it into biomass. Somewhere along the line that inorganic carbon becomes organic? A what point does this happen? And what part of the atom or molecule changes when this does happen? Or maybe atmospheric carbon is all organic? Lets say I did up some salt out of the ground and eat it. This salt becomes part of my body. Does it therefore become organic? Eventually, the salt leaves my body in sweat, for example. Does it suddenly lose its 'organic-ness'? It is the same molecule coming, going and floating around in my blood. So what it the big difference? ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com
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John Inactive Member |
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 761 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
Yep, 3-pyridinecarboxylic acid is the one I'm after. But I want Fencer's answer before I ask my next question.
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Fencer Guest |
quote: If it were only my life's goal to win your respect ... I like that line, though. Shakespeare could've used it in one of his tragedies.
quote: Thanks. However, please be on notice that it is in my ability to evolve into a jackass.
quote: I know. Better to stick with substance. I'm relieved you see I'm different. I'm not perfect though.
quote: Actually, not. I'm a man who takes no pleasure in another's suffering. But you're not a man. Maybe it's different for you.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1493 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
However, please be on notice that it is in my ability to evolve into a jackass. I don't know how it is where you're from, but where I'm from, we warn people of things before they happen. A number of us have raised very substantial question to a number of your supporting points; in particular, people want to know why you feel there is an unbridgable gap between "organic" and "inorganic" molecules, in the face of evidence to the contrary - for instance, the synthesis of urea (an organic compound) from mineral chemicals. Do you have a cogent response, or can we assume your only purpose here is to troll?
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Quetzal Member (Idle past 5898 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Whee! That may be the only thing I remember from sophmore biochemistry lo' those many years ago - since I had to memorize the chemistry in the NAD, NADP bits. That'll show my wife - I am NOT senile like she claims...
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Quetzal Member (Idle past 5898 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Hi Fencer,
Glad you're still here. Your attention invited to post #34. Thanks in advance.
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nator Member (Idle past 2196 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
OK, I won't tell you that I hadn't heard of Project Steve.
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nator Member (Idle past 2196 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Well, if you want to convince anyone that you are interested in informed, intelligent debate, you might take more care to behave like a grown up. As for the rest of my reply, I've got to ask...you did get that I was sarcastic, right, and that I believe you to be behaving in an opposite way to the "compliments" I was giving you, right? I believe that you are lowering, not elevating, the quality of discourse and debate here.
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 761 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
Fencer appears to have jumped the fence...
I really wanted him/her to tell me why the concentration of niacin in a pristine sample of the Tagish Lake meteorite was comparable to that in a mammal. If it's in a meteorite, it's inorganic, right?
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
joz writes:
quote: Just because I'm feeling ornery: Water and carbon dioxide are not considere "organic" molecules. The former precisely because it contains no carbon and the latter because it does not contain carbon in the right way (they need to contain hydrogen or a halide.) Given that silicon is chemically similar to carbon, some definitions include silicon in organic chemistry. Though, of course, I'm sure we could find at least one chemist somewhere who would argue that carbon dioxide is, indeed, "organic." By the way...organic chemistry forms the bulk of most practical chemistry: Over 95% of all known chemicals contain carbon. There was a time when the division of organic/inorganic was, indeed, the chemistry of chemicals found in living things/everything else, but this was based on the idea that there was some "vital force" in chemicals in living things. Then urea was synthesized from non-living sources and found to be identical to the urea isolated from living sources and thus, there needed to be a different definition. The "chemistry of carbon" became the definition (with certain exceptions). A question I often ask of creationists is whether or not the chemistry that happens inside of a cell is fundamentally different from the chemistry that happens outside of a cell. F'rinstance, is there a difference between H2O that is created from taking two moles of hydrogen gas and a mole of oxygen gas, mixing them at STP, and sparking the mixture and H2O created by taking oxygen gas and putting it through the respiratory chain? ------------------Rrhain WWJD? JWRTFM!
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John Inactive Member |
quote: ... exactly the question Fencer never answered. The clarification of organic chemistry was useful, BTW. ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com
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NeilUnreal Inactive Member |
I favor the pragmatic definition of organic chemistry. General chemistry is the benign variety you learn as a Junior in high school. Organic chemistry is the kind that makes the first two years of college a living nightmare.
-Neil
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Adminnemooseus Administrator Posts: 3976 Joined: |
I'm not at all sure this topic ever had a clearly defined topic, but I'm going to take the wild guess we are now off-topic.
Besides, this is in the "Welcome, Visitors!" forum, and in general has lingered on well beyond any sort of "welcome" function. Or something like that. Adminnemooseus
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