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Member (Idle past 2767 days) Posts: 2544 From: boulder, colorado Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The "Digital Code" of DNA | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Fosdick  Suspended Member (Idle past 5754 days) Posts: 1793 From: Upper Slobovia Joined: |
kuresu, in his OP, said this:
quote:There is a important inaccuracy in kuresu statement. It's with the words "chemical properties." If you substituted "chemical principles" for "chedmical properties" then the quote would correctly reflect my position: "DNA/RNA is a "digital" code. And, while this code is an intrinsic property of DNA, it is not the result of any chemical principles that we know of today." Clearly, the truth is that there are no know chemical principles that account for the evolution of a digital genetic code. And kuresu also stated in his OP:
quote:I disagree. Nucleic acids are the only molecules we know of that hold digital genetic code. If this is not remarkable and unique in nature then I don't know what is. I believe that abiogenesis must have included the evolution of a digital genetic code. If it did not, then I would have to ask how anything ever got inherited. Without genetic heritability it's hard to imagine how abiogenesis could have taken place. ”HM
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Fosdick  Suspended Member (Idle past 5754 days) Posts: 1793 From: Upper Slobovia Joined: |
CS wrote:
And words are meaningless unless we apply a meaning to them in the same way that the DNA "code" is meaningless until we apply a meaning to it.
Non sequitur. Who said anything about "meaning" anyway? What kind of meaning do you mean? Synatactical meaning? Onlological meaning? Poetic meaning?
The function of the code is independent of any "meaning" because its all just chemistry. There is no "code" necessary.
Well, yes. But you brought up "meaning." btw: There is a digital genetic code, and it is necessary. ”HM
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Fosdick  Suspended Member (Idle past 5754 days) Posts: 1793 From: Upper Slobovia Joined: |
All molecules hold the same code - the principles of chemical bonding.
Whew! You still cannot differentiate codes from bondings.
All molecules "inherit" the same principles of chemical bonding.
I'm afriad you are missing out on something quite interesting. If chemical bonding is all there is to it, then why should the order of the bondings have any relevance to the function of a DNA molecule? By way of your reasoning, a DNA molecule could be ordered in any way and not impair its function...because all the principles of chemical bonding are operating and satisfied.The "code" is nothing more than that. ”HM
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Fosdick  Suspended Member (Idle past 5754 days) Posts: 1793 From: Upper Slobovia Joined: |
Different ordering produces different reactions which produce different products. It's the same for any molecule.
No, it's not. The ordering of DNA is not the same thing as the ordering a quartz crystal. Very different kinds of information are involved. Yes, they all involve chemical bonding, but the quartz crystal has nothing in its structure that even faintly resembles the digital genetic information encoded on a DNA molecule. Their electromagnetic bonding properties and principles may be the same, but their informative properties and principles are quite different. ”HM
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Fosdick  Suspended Member (Idle past 5754 days) Posts: 1793 From: Upper Slobovia Joined: |
Hoot Mon writes: The ordering of DNA is not the same thing as the ordering a quartz crystal. Their ordering is based on the same chemical principles. ”HM
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Fosdick  Suspended Member (Idle past 5754 days) Posts: 1793 From: Upper Slobovia Joined: |
I may be a little dopey, mainly for trying to reason with you guys, but I am not disingenuous. There are simply no credible molecular biologists I know of that would deny the unambiguous biological existence of a genetic code. If either you or CS are denying it then you are doing so for reasons apart from science. You would have to be very uninformed to deny the natural existence of a genetic code, and that it is digital. But if you wanted to argue that everything is metaphor, then you could always say that genetic code is just a popular way of speaking that reflects contemporary computer concepts, or some dodge like that. I'm not saying this and neither are credible molecular biologists. We're saying that there is a real, actual, and unambiguous genetic code that engages nucleotides as digits to hold heritable information about the expression of proteins. The code has a celebrated alphabet, but it lacks syntactical meaning and therefore does not qualify as a language (according to Chomsky).
btw: What kind of proteins do rock produce? And do they pass that ability on to their little stone children? ”HM
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Fosdick  Suspended Member (Idle past 5754 days) Posts: 1793 From: Upper Slobovia Joined: |
Instead of repeating and repeating that empty claim, why not produce some evidence?
What would it take if Watson and Crick are not enough?
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Fosdick  Suspended Member (Idle past 5754 days) Posts: 1793 From: Upper Slobovia Joined: |
OK. Try this: You can order genes through the Internet (if you're a qualified scientist, I assume). How is this done? By specifying the code”the digital code: TACAGGCTACTA...
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Fosdick  Suspended Member (Idle past 5754 days) Posts: 1793 From: Upper Slobovia Joined: |
Ringo, are you saying the equivalent of this: 'A Ford is nothing more than summation of its parts. There is no Fordness that goes beyond the physical automobile itself.'
”HM
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Fosdick  Suspended Member (Idle past 5754 days) Posts: 1793 From: Upper Slobovia Joined: |
Hoot Mon writes: You can order genes through the Internet.... Ringo asks: And what can those genes do? Can they produce proteins? quote: Show me the Fordness
How about a Ford owner's manual? There's digital Fordness in there. ”HM
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Fosdick  Suspended Member (Idle past 5754 days) Posts: 1793 From: Upper Slobovia Joined: |
Once again, how is the "code" anything other than the structure of the molecule?
Because structure alone does not explain the genetic code”the molecular structure must be arranged to hold its genetic information. You can have a DNA molecule with any arrangement of nucleotides and it's still a DNA molecule. The structure of a DNA molecule is not the primary concern here, because the arrangement of nucleotides into coded information goes a huge step beyond mere structure. You want a DNA molecule to work like a quartz molecule. You want to see all of the information contained in the electromagnetic bonding. You fail to see how a rock is different from sea urchin, because you pull the shade down on anything that is more than just bonding chemistry. But I suppose you will say, ignorantly, that molecular arrangement is only structure. That's like saying 'a jelly doughnut is only food.' What's the point? ...futility is a bad feeling. ”HM
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Fosdick  Suspended Member (Idle past 5754 days) Posts: 1793 From: Upper Slobovia Joined: |
...and the arrangement of a song is only music.
”HM
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