Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 59 (9164 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,923 Year: 4,180/9,624 Month: 1,051/974 Week: 10/368 Day: 10/11 Hour: 1/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Do you share the optimism of Edward O Wilson?
Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5903 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 9 of 22 (402588)
05-28-2007 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by ogon
05-27-2007 5:45 PM


My experience and that of my kids is probably different from a lot of the folks who post here. However, I strongly endorse Taz's main idea: get 'em young, keep 'em engaged, and eventually kids' natural curiosity will begin to have them explore and learn on their own. Ideally, the kids should be consistently exposed to nature as young as possible (I started mine at about 4-5). A once-a-year field trip with the school isn't going to do it. The adults in their lives have to be as engaged as they are, by the way. If not, the kid is going to look at the excursions as a chore - not as a fun way to be with mommy and/or daddy. Make it fun, interesting, even exciting, and you've gone a long way towards getting the kid permanently interested.
Will this solve the man-made biotic crisis currently facing the planet? Possibly not - but education is a strong step in the right direction. If we can inculcate an understanding of the value of the natural world, our legacy (our children) will be motivated to continue and even expand efforts to preserve it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by ogon, posted 05-27-2007 5:45 PM ogon has not replied

  
Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5903 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 13 of 22 (402612)
05-28-2007 10:11 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by AZPaul3
05-28-2007 6:49 PM


Re: Life Is Already Safe - Thank You - Sorta
I’ve always loved the “green” sentiments of “Save The Planet” and “Save Life on Earth.”
In a generic sense, you're absolutely correct: "Life" with a capital "L" is not in any real danger. Nor is planet Earth. However, even though somewhat trite, in my opinion the catchphrases you take exception to refer to a more profound philosophical concern. For the first time (at least as far as we know) there exists a species on this planet who is capable of severely disrupting the global environment - much in the way of the great natural cataclysms of the past such as the Alvarez Event or whateverthehellitwas that happened at the End Permian. The key difference is: we don't have to be a natural disaster. We CAN choose to change. And THAT is what the "green movement" is ostensibly geared towards. Not that they're very effective to date. I personally would like to see a great deal more done to mitigate or even prevent the anthropogenic Holocene mass extinction we appear to be heading towards.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by AZPaul3, posted 05-28-2007 6:49 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by ogon, posted 05-29-2007 3:07 AM Quetzal has replied

  
Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5903 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 16 of 22 (403082)
05-31-2007 7:11 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by AZPaul3
05-29-2007 1:20 PM


All agreed. But the catchphrases and the bumper stickers and the view we give our young people are bogus. The problem is we divert attention from the real issue. Whales, rain forests and global warming are but threads in a tapestry; one that we are woven into. While important in addressing the main issue this stuff is fluff that does not focus on the issue at hand.
True enough - and I agree with your analogy about "threads in a tapestry". However, I submit that I agree only because I am both intimately engaged in the issues as a profession, and have years of study and experience behind me to support my understanding. The point of the bumper stickers and catchphrases is not to present the entire picture, but to engage the average person (who's attention span I fully believe is measured in nanoseconds). In the business we call the whales, dolphins, baby chimps, pandas, etc the "charismatic" species - the ones that average, non-ecologist/non-conservation biologists see and go "awwwww". Those are the images that stick in people's minds, and that are concrete enough (and let's face it, cute enough), to motivate people to donate or otherwise get involved. Without that, people will simply ignore the issues - because they have way too many other things to occupy themselves with. There's a reason why the World Wildlife Fund, for instance and among others, has adopted a charismatic as their logo.
Unless we are upfront, honest and adamant about it the heart gets diverted into (albeit important) minutia. The real drive needs to be stated clearly and precisely so there is no mistake about what is at issue here. The issue is not “Save The Dolphins” or “Save The Snail Darter” or “Save The Majestic Bald Eagle.” The issue here is “Save The Humans.”
Again, I agree with you. However, to "save the humans" as you note, we need to preserve as much as possible the natural ecosystems upon which we depend - whether the average person knows it or not. However, I completely believe that using easily visualized or even "cute" organisms or easily remembered catchphrases is far more effective in reaching the average person than lecturing about environmental economics or the value of ecosystem services. After all, the vast majority of people with "Save the Rainforest" bumperstickers are NOT going to be the ones teaching a Cofan village about integrated farming techniques as an alternative to traditional destructive exploitation patterns. The folks that ARE actually doing that, I can assure you, are fully aware of the, erm, holistic nature of the problem and the complexity of the potential solutions.
Kids think whales are in danger and have been told this is not good but the reinforcement of “why” is left out.
I wanted to take this seperately. You're absolutely right. This goes back to what Taz said above, and I supported: education is the key to the future of both our species and a myriad of others. Unfortunately, most environmental ed that I've encountered (outside a university, at least), is sadly lacking in explaining the "why's". It is even worse in the developing world where the people are most directly involved in environmental degradation (at least of the tropics). Conservationists really only been focusing on this aspect of the issue for a decade or so. The best mix of practical alternatives, development, education, and conservation has yet to be discovered.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by AZPaul3, posted 05-29-2007 1:20 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5903 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 17 of 22 (403083)
05-31-2007 7:22 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by ogon
05-29-2007 3:07 AM


Re: Life Is Already Safe - Thank You - Sorta
I can do everything in my power to save life on Earth but at the end of the day I don't have ultimate control or power do I? Bring on the worlds governments. What they want is what we are going to get. They are driven by forces much larger than what we are driven by.
You, as an individual, probably don't have any power to effect global change. Nor do I. Nor does any other single individual. But I'd like to give you a quote that I think is very apropos.
quote:
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world.
Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. (Margaret Mead)
I have this framed, sitting next to my computer. It's what keeps me going in the face of a million irritations, setbacks, cases of deliberate obtuseness or genuine ignorance. There's "faith" for you.
Edited by Quetzal, : spelling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by ogon, posted 05-29-2007 3:07 AM ogon has not replied

  
Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5903 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 20 of 22 (403304)
06-01-2007 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by ogon
06-01-2007 6:45 PM


Re: education
Sorry to hear about your school. From what I understand, this type of thinking is widespread in the US public (gov't - I know that means something else in the UK) school system.
How about a worldwide network of REAL schools guys? Schools covering the basic curriculum areas but with a focus on REAL issues facing the planet and the lives of its inhabitants. There could also be an emphasis on particular qualifications and employment prospects related to these issues/areas.
It's a brilliant idea. In fact, it's so brilliant that people are already doing it. The Foundation I work for has programs with Youth International, Ecuador's GEO Juvenil Ecuador, and QUEST Overseas. The Foundation will also start hosting this fall Ecuadorian (and ultimately international) programs of Youth-to-Youth International. In addition the Foundation is working out reciprocity agreements with some 26 UK schools (Midlands and Wales) that will ultimately involve youth exchanges between the Foundation's technical school in the Amazon and student groups from the UK. For precisely the type of intensive exposure and hopefully understanding that you're espousing. Finally, I hope to host the IB/AP Biology groups from the two Quito international schools - Alliance Academy and Cotopaxi Academy - at the foundation's rainforest preserve next spring.
Should there be more? Absolutely. If you're interested, send an email to admin@ with a request for it to be forwarded to me.
Edited by Quetzal, : dropped quote

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by ogon, posted 06-01-2007 6:45 PM ogon has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024