Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,815 Year: 3,072/9,624 Month: 917/1,588 Week: 100/223 Day: 11/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Evangelical Support Group
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1 of 331 (397511)
04-26-2007 10:08 AM


I would like to propose a new topic for evangelical Christians (who believe that the Bible is mostly literal and that Jesus is alive, was raised from the Dead...is alive today...etc etc.)
In this topic I want to address evangelicals on the board. I am not sure who you all are, but I know some of you. In this topic, I want to be able to speak the way that people speak to each other at church...encouraging, using scripture, and generally going with the theological beliefs of the Pentecostal/Baptist/Assemblies Of God, Non-Denominational sub-culture. (If you know what I mean)
I want this topic to be directed at these particular Christians and would ask that there be noresponses from other forum members. You all are invited to watch our discussion, however.
This is a support group/round table discussion on any and all basic issues concerning beliefs, creation/evolution, and the thought process of literalist believers versus the logical people.
Faith/Belief, please
Edited by Phat, : made my criteria stronger for discussion.

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by ICANT, posted 04-27-2007 12:13 AM Phat has replied
 Message 12 by nyenye, posted 04-27-2007 2:23 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 20 by Rob, posted 04-28-2007 1:22 AM Phat has replied
 Message 43 by Admin, posted 04-30-2007 10:19 AM Phat has replied
 Message 75 by GDR, posted 05-01-2007 12:57 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 7 of 331 (397667)
04-27-2007 1:27 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Pete OS
04-26-2007 11:45 PM


Re: Looking for a discussion
Pete writes:
Basically, I am looking for people who believe in Jesus, his deity, incarnation, death, resurrection, and our resting in him for salvation; who otherwise believe the evidence for evolution is overwhelming. To be totally transparent, I am getting a little nervous and would like to talk through some of these issues with other Christians.
Welcome to EvC, Pete. There are many different topics that address creation, Biblical creation, evolution, and all of that.
My topic here, however, is not a science topic. This topic is for evangelicals. This is a Faith topic and not a science topic.
Edited by Phat, : clarification

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Pete OS, posted 04-26-2007 11:45 PM Pete OS has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by kuresu, posted 04-27-2007 1:35 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 9 of 331 (397669)
04-27-2007 1:41 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by kuresu
04-27-2007 1:35 AM


Re: Looking for a discussion
edit (Im trying to keep my topic focused on Evangelical discussions only. I realize that this is a bit exclusive, but that was the purpose of this topic.
Edited by Phat, : kinder gentler response

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by kuresu, posted 04-27-2007 1:35 AM kuresu has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Jon, posted 04-27-2007 1:46 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 11 of 331 (397671)
04-27-2007 2:03 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by jar
04-27-2007 1:03 AM


Adminnemooseus subtitle - Phats opinion is that Jar does not belong in this topic
Jar---unless you are an evangelical, I suggest that you hightail it back to the chatroom.
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Changed subtitle from "Re: Looking for a discussion" to "Adminnemooseus subtitle - Phats opinion is that Jar does not belong in this topic". You know Phat, a good subtitle might be a useful thing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by jar, posted 04-27-2007 1:03 AM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Phat, posted 04-27-2007 2:26 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 13 of 331 (397673)
04-27-2007 2:26 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Phat
04-27-2007 2:03 AM


Re: Adminnemooseus subtitle - Phats opinion is that Jar does not belong in this topic
Thanks, Moose. I was a bit miffed that everyone
except
evangelicals took my topic over while I was at work. I'm gonna keep a tight rein on this one...It is meant to be a round table discussion with other evangelicals.
I DO appreciate you fixing my subtitle, though.
I may close the topic briefly until I get a few of the evangelicals aware of it, and then we shall start our little praise fest!
I don't want the topic to be hijacked and led on an empirical discussion of what it means to be a Christian or any of that claptrap.
Evangelicals know who they are.
Edited by Phat, : spelling
Edited by Phat, : fixed quote
Edited by Phat, : fixing a quote
Edited by Phat, : fixed a quote
Edited by Phat, : finally trying to fix this blessed quote!
Edited by Phat, : I give up!
Edited by Phat, :

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Phat, posted 04-27-2007 2:03 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Phat, posted 04-27-2007 2:43 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 14 of 331 (397674)
04-27-2007 2:43 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Phat
04-27-2007 2:26 AM


Basic Loosely Defined Belief Statement for this Group
We are not here to be critical thinkers, nor are we here to attempt to define God. We know who we are, and we don't need our beliefs critiqued or defined for us.
I will direct this support group.
Calvary Chapel in Aurora, Colorado near my home has this belief statement on their website. While many Christians disagree over doctrines and beliefs, most of the evangelical(conservative Protestant) believers would agree in general with the following belief statement.
While I am not saying that my personal belief statement is just like this one, I am going to use this statement as a foundational guideline for this support group. In other words, if you wonder whether you should be in this group, ask yourself if the following belief statement is in line with what you choose to accept. If so, you are probably ready to join our roundtable discussion. If not, I would suggest other topics.
Calvary Chapel has been formed as a fellowship of believers in the Lordship of Jesus Christ. Our supreme desire is know Christ and be conformed to His image by the power of the Holy Spirit. We are not a denominational church, nor are we opposed to denominations as such; only to their over-emphasis of the doctrinal differences that have lead to the division of the Body of Christ. We believe that the only true basis of Christian fellowship is Christ's (Agape) love, which is greater than differences we possess, and without which we have no right to claim ourselves Christians.
DOCTRINAL
1. We believe in what is termed "The Apostles' Creed" as embodying all the fundamental doctrines of orthodox evangelical Christianity.
2. We believe there is one living and true God, eternally existing in three persons; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, equal in power and glory; that this triune God created all, upholds all, and governs all.
3. We believe in God, the Father, an infinite, personal Spirit, perfect in holiness, wisdom, power, and love; that He concerns Himself mercifully in the affairs of men; that He hears and answers prayer; and that He saves from sin and death all who come to Him through Jesus Christ.
4. We believe in Jesus Christ, God's only begotten Son, conceived by the Holy Spirit. We believe in His virgin birth, sinless life, miracles, and teachings; His substitutionary atoning death; bodily resurrection; ascension into heaven; perpetual intercession for His people; and personal, visible return to earth. We believe that He is one and the same as God. He was fully human and fully God.
5. We believe the Holy Spirit was sent to convict the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment and to regenerate, sanctify, and empower in ministry all who believe in Christ. We believe the Holy Spirit indwells every believer in Jesus Christ and that He is an abiding Helper, Teacher, and Guide. We believe that Jesus Christ baptizes the seeking believer with the Holy Spirit and power for service, either at the time of or subsequent to regeneration, which is a separate work from the indwelling Spirit for salvation. We believe in the present ministry of the Holy Spirit and in the exercise of all biblical gifts of the Spirit as reflected through the fruit of that same Spirit. in the Holy Spirit, who came forth from the Father and Son.
6. We believe that all the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are the Word of God, fully inspired and without error in the original manuscripts, and that they are the infallible rule of faith and practice.
7. We believe all people are by nature separated from God and responsible for their own sin, but that salvation, redemption, and forgiveness are freely offered to all by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. When a person repents of sin and accepts Jesus Christ as his/her personal Lord and Savior, trusting Him to save, that person is immediately born again and sealed by the Holy Spirit, all of his/her sins are forgiven, and that person becomes a child of God, destined to spend eternity with the Lord.
8. We await the pre-tribulation rapture of the church, and we believe in the literal Second Coming of Christ with His saints to rule the earth, which will be personal and visible. This motivates us to holy living, heartfelt worship, committed service, diligent study of God's Word, regular fellowship, participation in adult baptism by immersion and Holy Communion.
9. We are neither Five-Point Calvinists, nor are we Arminians. We adhere firmly to the biblical teaching of God's sovereignty and man's responsibility. We avoid any theological systems of belief that go beyond the written Word and thereby divide the body of Christ.
10. We do not believe in "positive confession" (the faith movement belief that God can be commanded to heal or work miracles according to man's will); human prophecy that supersedes the Scriptures; the incorporation of humanistic and secular psychology into biblical teaching; the overemphasis of spiritual gifts and experiential signs and wonders to the exclusion of biblical teaching; or that true Christians can be demon-possessed.
11. We believe in the universal Church, in the living spiritual body, of which Christ is the head and all regenerated persons are members.
12. We believe the Lord Jesus Christ committed two ordinances to the Church: 1) baptism, and 2) the Lord's Supper. We believe in baptism by immersion and communion, both of which are open to all believers in Jesus Christ.
13. We believe in the laying on of hands for the sending out of pastors and missionaries, and in conjunction with the anointing of oil by the elders for the healing of the sick.
PRACTICAL
14. We believe the only true basis of Christian fellowship is Christ's (agape) love, which is greater than differences we possess, and without which we have no right to claim ourselves Christians.
15. We believe worship of God should be spiritual; therefore, we remain flexible and yielded to the leading of the Holy Spirit to direct our worship.
16. We believe worship of God should be inspirational; therefore, we give great place to music in our worship.
17. We believe worship of God should be intelligent; therefore, our services are designed with great emphasis upon the teaching of the Word of God that He might instruct us on how He should be worshiped. We seek to teach the Word of God in such a way that its message can be applied to the individual's life, leading that person to a greater maturity in Christ. We teach both expositionally and topically.
18. We believe worship of God should be fruitful; therefore, we look for His love in our lives as the supreme manifestation that we have been truly worshiping Him.
19. We believe that the church government should be simplistic rather than a complex bureaucracy, and we depend on the Holy Spirit to lead, rather than on fleshly promotion.
20. We believe that the Bible clearly delineates that spiritual gifts are for the edification of the body and that they are to be exercised in love. We believe that love is more important than the most spectacular gifts, and without love, all exercise of spiritual gifts is worthless. In our services, we focus on a personal relationship with God through worship, prayer, and the teaching of the Word of God. We do not practice speaking in tongues during worship or while a Bible study is in progress because we do not believe that the Holy Spirit would interrupt Himself. God is not the author of confusion. These gifts are encouraged in more intimate settings, e.g. personal prayer times, and afterglow services where their benefit can accomplish the purpose for which they have been given - the edification of the body of Christ
I will have this topic open at times and closed other times so that it does not get derailed. When I see some of you online, I will email you and invite you to participate. This topic will ideally provide a glimpse into our subculture.
After this topic runs for awhile (100-150 posts)I will open it up to anyone who cares to comment.
Edited by Phat, : clarification
Edited by Phat, : edit out inappropriate conclusions

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Phat, posted 04-27-2007 2:26 AM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by PaulK, posted 04-30-2007 8:02 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 15 of 331 (397700)
04-27-2007 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by ICANT
04-27-2007 12:13 AM


Re: Re-Belief
ICAN'T writes:
There are many things that come to my mind that are important but the most important thing I see dividing Christianity today is the requirements for entrance to Heaven.
Many believe you can go to heaven by being good and doing good things.
Many believe you can only go to heaven by receiving the free gift of God's only begotten Son dying on the cross to pay man's sin debt.
What must I do to be saved? Is the most important question that a person needs the answer to. Because it determines where you will spend eternity.
This question was asked of Paul in Acts 16:30. In Acts 16:31 Paul answered "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved".
I personally am not as much of an evangelist...or "witness" for Christ as I used to be. In many ways I believe that God uses me more effectively than I was used in the past. Many people will be watching this topic as it develops and most of them will scoff at us for several reasons:
  • The perceived air of exclusivity. I know that I am no better than anyone else, however, and I respect many of the fine scientists and educated people at EvC. The only reason that I made such a thread as this is that they never understood my relationship with like minded believers or with God.
  • The belief that is not backed by any facts.
    Again, I can't argue this point. To me, God exists and is personal. How can I begin to describe such a relationship? Do you have any suggestions?

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 5 by ICANT, posted 04-27-2007 12:13 AM ICANT has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 17 of 331 (397712)
    04-27-2007 11:14 AM
    Reply to: Message 16 by Archer Opteryx
    04-27-2007 11:06 AM


    Re: Looking for a discussion
    Thank you, Archer! I realize that some new members will have questions, and if they come into this thread unknowingly, I will direct them to other sources. This thread will follow the belief statement, in general, and will be a non-critical thinking thread.
    God gives us the answers if we seek Him and discuss His word in context of our beliefs. There are certainly other places on this board to question such beliefs but not in this thread.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 16 by Archer Opteryx, posted 04-27-2007 11:06 AM Archer Opteryx has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 18 by truthlover, posted 04-27-2007 3:21 PM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 19 of 331 (397797)
    04-27-2007 6:32 PM
    Reply to: Message 18 by truthlover
    04-27-2007 3:21 PM


    Re: Looking for a discussion
    Hi, Truthlover!
    I am also not 100% convinced that the Bible is 100% word for word literal. I believe that it may be close to literal in a thought for thought parable oriented type of way, however. For the purposes of this topic, I wanted to stick to the Belief statement of a local church, Calvary Chapel. (I picked them randomly, because I believe most of their belief statement.)
    The reason that I asked Jar not to participate is because there are several key points in the Belief Statement that would perhaps be points of contention.
    The same holds true with you, but I see you as more of a faith type of guy who believes
    belief statement writes:
    that He concerns Himself mercifully in the affairs of men; that He hears and answers prayer; and that He saves from sin and death all who come to Him through Jesus Christ.
    I suppose that you do not agree with
    Belief Statemnt writes:
    6. We believe that all the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are the Word of God, fully inspired and without error in the original manuscripts, and that they are the infallible rule of faith and practice.
    The only reason that I wanted to limit participation in this thread to these things is because otherwise the thread would derail into church history, differing Canons, and critical thinking versus unthinking beliefs. I wanted this topic to showcase the scriptural encouragement from one fundamentalist evangelical to another....without going into an intellectual discourse into the meanings of faith, belief, doctrine, and practice. For now, this topic is in an experimental phase...I want to get it going and then after 100 posts or so, I will invite everyone in to participate.
    Is that OK with you?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 18 by truthlover, posted 04-27-2007 3:21 PM truthlover has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 21 of 331 (397860)
    04-28-2007 2:03 AM
    Reply to: Message 20 by Rob
    04-28-2007 1:22 AM


    Groupthink
    Rob writes:
    Are you saying that literalist believers are illogical? Or that logical believers cannot be literalists?
    I am saying that logic, by definition (of the critics) is not ever arrived at any other way than through experiments and the scientific method. Faith by definition may be logical in an absolutist "God or else" sense, but not in a practical verifiable sense.
    Logic without truth is pure materialism.
    In the sense that materialism = idolatry, I agree with you.
    But logic is more than utilitarian and practical. It is also moral...
    Only someone with an awareness of morality as emanating from Jesus Christ the living truth would ever say what you said. I understand you, I think.
    Edited by Phat, : changed key word

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 20 by Rob, posted 04-28-2007 1:22 AM Rob has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 23 by Rob, posted 04-28-2007 2:40 AM Phat has replied
     Message 31 by nator, posted 04-28-2007 8:12 PM Phat has not replied
     Message 42 by nator, posted 04-30-2007 9:39 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 22 of 331 (397863)
    04-28-2007 2:19 AM
    Reply to: Message 18 by truthlover
    04-27-2007 3:21 PM


    Re: Looking for a discussion
    truthlover writes:
    On the other hand, I submit to the Scriptures and I believe them to be breathed by God and profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness. My morality is based on the New Testament. In fact, my objection to the way most churches try to follow the Bible is based on the Bible, which says that the sons of God are to be led by the Spirit of God, not the Scriptures. (John 5:39,40 apply here very well.)
    Do you consider only the red letter words to be actual scripture?
    What is your definition of scripture and in your belief is it only applicable to Jesus?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 18 by truthlover, posted 04-27-2007 3:21 PM truthlover has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 28 by truthlover, posted 04-28-2007 2:38 PM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 24 of 331 (397867)
    04-28-2007 3:00 AM
    Reply to: Message 23 by Rob
    04-28-2007 2:40 AM


    Re: Groupthink
    Rob writes:
    When Jesus spoke, He declared what is true! His words are not even challengeable, without moving into illogical ground.
    OK..so what is it that I do not understand?
    Rob writes:
    In the very least, it seems that you often defer to the status quo (the spirit of the age). Not a biblical principle... In fact, it is very contrary to scripture. Where is your discernment?
    I have my reasons for behaving and interacting the way that I do and, to the best of my ability, I have valid reasons for doing so. At the risk of being labeled lukewarm, I feel that my style allows further inroads into human interactions and dialogue.
    Rob writes:
    The critics are using deceptive philosophy Phat. I don't want
    you to accept what I say about that. I want you to understand it.
    Perhaps I already believe this and do understand it. We can always discuss it, however!
    Add by Edit: I am willing to accept that I am being deceived, to clarify. I trust that the Holy Spirit gives me discernment, although I honestly don't think I take full advantage of the impartation. I am my own worst enemy, at times. The Devil isnt gonna do anything that i dont allow him to do. Such is the warfare we fight.
    Edited by Phat, : fixed quote
    Edited by Phat, : add by edit

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 23 by Rob, posted 04-28-2007 2:40 AM Rob has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 25 by Rob, posted 04-28-2007 8:40 AM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 26 of 331 (397915)
    04-28-2007 10:37 AM
    Reply to: Message 25 by Rob
    04-28-2007 8:40 AM


    Re: Groupthink
    Rob writes:
    I don't think you've allowed the persecution to temper you. You attempt to control it and keep safe. If that is so, I understand.
    Not to mention that I respect other peoples educations to an extent. It may well be that this entire thing is one vast spiritual war that even the most astute and ardent scientific minds are unaware of. Now wouldn't that be something!!?? I have witnessed evidence (to my critical satisfaction) of the supernatural realm before, and I must say that it humbled and scared me, as well as strengthened my faith quite a bit! In fact, I was quite stupefied!
    My critics have suggested that what I witnessed had rational, sane explanations and was not what I had determined that it was. All I can tell you is that they were not there! They also suggest that I want to believe this stuff so much that I give up seeking rational explanations and embrace *woo woo* explanations as a natural comfort zone of my own making.
    Rob writes:
    Honestly, I don't think you are here to evangelize. You're here for friendship. Not that there is anything wrong with that. Just don't forget that our opponents are here to evangelize their own agenda (whether they are conscious of it or not).
    So in other words, you are suggesting that Satan uses people to fulfill his agenda in the worldwide spiritual war whether his unwitting vessels are even aware of his existence or of such an agenda? C.S. Lewis first proposed that very idea, saying that Satan's neatest trick was convincing individuals that he did not exist! Honestly though, Rob...I wonder that I am going nuts believing this stuff!
    Lets critically examine some of the accusations that our critics say about us:
    1) That we are a Cult Of Ignorance. Could it be that we have actually been taught dogma and that much of our beliefs have been formed through what we have read versus what we intrinsically know through spiritual impartation? I mean, to be honest, I also have listened to Ravi Zacharias, not to mention C.S. Lewis. I admit that I learn from those whom I listen to, and at some point one has to either trust the source as credible or not. In conclusion, I do not see myself as ignorant, but I do see myself unwilling to believe some alternative belief paradigms which make much more sense (in the natural) than my own. I mean, honestly---belief in a spiritual realm is quite "out there" to the scientific mind!
    2) That conservative Christians are ruining this country. Ironically, I agree with my critics on this one. Satan works through Christians more effectively than he works through non-believers.
    Edited by Phat, : clarification

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 25 by Rob, posted 04-28-2007 8:40 AM Rob has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 30 by Rob, posted 04-28-2007 7:50 PM Phat has not replied
     Message 32 by Rob, posted 04-29-2007 12:59 AM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 27 of 331 (397937)
    04-28-2007 12:04 PM
    Reply to: Message 5 by ICANT
    04-27-2007 12:13 AM


    Examining our own Dogma
    Oftentimes, I hear the word dogma bandied about when referring to unthinking people of my ilk. I looked up the word and found this definition:
    Websters writes:
    dog”ma n 1 : a tenet or code of tenets 2 : a doctrine or body of doctrines formally proclaimed by a church
    I thought that in the interest of this topic, I would actually reproduce some of the literature and "tenets" read by people such as you and I. I googled, and found some beliefs that were said to be central to the Christian Faith. I know, however, that some of these are controversial even among Christians.
    The Bible is the Word of God. It is inspired and inerrant in its original autographs. It is a complete and final revelation of God. I have heard arguments on both sides of this one. We have even had a professor of theology (who happens to be an atheist, ironically) who laid out some rational reasons why the Bible could not be inerrant according to archaeological, linguistic, and consensual reasons. One possible reason for rejecting his rational explanation is the spiritual war hypothesis that we discussed earlier. One reason for accepting his conclusion is by asking myself whether or not the Bible needs to be true in a word for word proclamation. I personally believe that the Bible reveals, through its authors and stories, the character of the Living Christ. Some believe that Jesus is revealed in every book of the Bible.
    see Link
    There is one God and only one God. He is personal and knowable. He manifests Himself in three persons: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The doctrine of the Trinity is quite important to many Christians. Personally, I am fine with the belief that there is one God. I also believe that He is personable, and knowable. I usually explain the Trinity through the analogy of Sun, Light, and Heat. Quite honestly, I never worry about Who I am talking to or communing with, however. I believe that God sees the intentions and motives of my heart and would never be crowded out by another spirit.
    Jesus Christ is God manifest in the flesh, born of a virgin, without sin, and the chosen Messiah who will one day set up his kingdom on earth. Personally, I believe that Jesus is Gods character. He existed In The Beginning as Gods character and was not created or naturally born. Some have said that while on earth he was fully human...with all the limitations a human might have. I tend to agree that He was fully human, but I believe that He was without sin since it was not in His nature to willfully (or even accidentally) seperate Himself from Gods will.
    Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins, was buried, rose again from the dead, ascended back to heaven, and will one day return to this earth again. I have heard the arguments from those who wonder why God would choose to allow humanity to choose sin and then offer redemption through personal sacrifice of His son. The critics ask why Jesus was even a sacrifice if He was God. In conclusion, I DO believe that Jesus is alive today! I strongly believe that it is important for Him to have literally existed. The idea of God becoming man is central to our human ability to relate to Him.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 5 by ICANT, posted 04-27-2007 12:13 AM ICANT has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 29 of 331 (397964)
    04-28-2007 3:03 PM
    Reply to: Message 28 by truthlover
    04-28-2007 2:38 PM


    Hebrews 10:26
    Heb 10:26-27-- If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. I was taught once that this scripture proved that people were not always saved once they were saved.
    I believe that once I met God, He would never leave me even if I left Him. (and whatever would a believer want to leave God, for?)
    However on a practical day to day application, willful sin is practiced by many Christians. Are we responsible, or is it our nature?
    I would argue that that snippet means that God has already done His part and that we are fully empowered to do our part. He will not stop us from getting ourselves in trouble, in other words.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 28 by truthlover, posted 04-28-2007 2:38 PM truthlover has not replied

      
    Newer Topic | Older Topic
    Jump to:


    Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

    ™ Version 4.2
    Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024