Atheism Examined

Amen, nj I will meet you on the way up or just inside the eastern gate. Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

So anyone claiming to be a Christian is one.Do you give the same benefit of doubt to someone claiming to be an atheist? I do not claim to be a Christian (my definition: Christ like) I just claim to be a child of the King.It is not for me to say who is Christian and who is not, just as it is not for me to say who is atheist and who is not. If I say it that does not make it true.

I just claim to be a child of the King. If I say it that does not make it true.?

You say majority, I agree, But that leaves the possibility open that there may be one true God. Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

Brian I copied from my post 145
But if I claim to be a brain surgeon because I used to kill hogs and make hog head cheese out of their brains, does that make me a brain surgeon?Saying God exist does not make it true.Saying God does not exist does not make it true.In other words saying anything is or is not does not make it true, but the possibility exists that it is. Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

Better example:Saying that there are (or are not) invisible flying elves circling my head at all times, keeping me safe from the mind-control rays of the CIA, does not make it true (or false). It is possible that it's true; it's possible that it's not.It is, however, quite sensible to operate under the assumption that there are no invisible elves and no CIA mind-control rays, unless someone can show you evidence that these things even exist.

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"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut."
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The topic is examining Atheism.This topic is not about Christianity or whether one is or was a true Christian.The topic is not about whether God(s) exist or not.This is your second warning.Please stick to the topic.Please direct any comments concerning this Admin msg to the Moderation Thread.

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One of the problems with Straggler's O.P. is that he specifically requests us not to present definitions. At various points throughout the thread, people have confused things like anti-theism and nihilism with atheism. But even without that, there are actually genuine problems with definitions of atheism, as they can vary considerably, and there's no real authority to say what's the difference between atheism and strong agnosticism, for example. So I move that, with Stragglers permission, we should start discussing definitions for a few posts.

I am afraid that I consider personal incredulity regards the answers that science provides and a need to believe in a god for some sort of meaning to existence as two of the worst reasons for believing anything.They really prove nothing more than the limits to your imagination and and ability to find your own answers. Again - Not a good reason. Hedging your bets on the basis you will be better off if it is all true and it won't matter if not is surely a terrible reason for believing from either point of view. From the atheist perspective you are deluding yourself for personal comfort and from the religious point of view you are believing purely for personal gain rather than true worship of any kind.There may be good reasons for being a theist but these are not them. I suggest you read the comments of some of the other theists in this forum to get a better feel for why they believe.
If you insist on believing, even I would rather you had good reasons for doing so Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

Your definition of atheists as those who effectively have faith that there is no god are as you say, equally as irrational as those who have faith in God.However atheism as I mean it (and I resent the term weak atheist as frankly I am equally atheist about the Christian God as I am Zeus or Thor) is one that does not require faith.Absolute certainty is a faith based position. Absolute conviction in the compellingness of the evidence to suggest that there is no god is about as certain as I can get. But that will never be 100% (99.8 maybe )Nature as we observe it on this planet and as far as we can tell the vastness of the universe are all compatible with a uncaring naturalistic, mechanistic view of the universe. They are not compatible with a benevolent god of any sort. Not without some very difficult questions and some very convuluted answers.
A sick twisted god or a completely indifferent one are harder to argue against but there is no evidence for these gods either.I think I understand the path you have been on to arrive back at Catholicism - BUT - doesn't it strike you as convenient that at the end of your journey you end up back within the realms of the beliefs with which you were raised and indoctrinated?? Why Jesus and not Allah? Why is it God and not Muhammed or Buddha that eventually showed the path to enlightenment?Only you can answer those questions but the same questions apply to nearly all those of faith.
Why that faith and what in your life would have made you equally certain of something quite different?
Atheism as I describe it is the only rational way in the absence of being persoanlly 'touched' by faith in some way.

I am more interested in peoples actual views than subscriptions to one dictionary definition or another BUT as long as that is borne in mind and it does not just become a 'my dictionary is bigger than your dictionary' competition and it helps the debate along then - by all means go for it.

Actually, I just looked around, and the dictionary definitions aren't consistent, so it appears that the whole world is as confused as we are. What I find annoying is that if you describe yourself as an agnostic, then that is sometimes taken to mean that you half believe in the traditional God of your culture, whereas I would prefer to define agnostics as the last people who are going to believe in anything (they need to be sure!). So you're left with atheism, which is frequently seen as an active disbelief in a God or Gods, rather than just people who see no reason to believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn or the Spaghetti monster, which is probably how most of us would prefer it.

Well I have never bee a Christian so I cannot be a lapsed one (can I?)I can imagine evidence that would convince me of a gods existence but it seems very very unlikely that any such evidence would appear.What would it take for you to become convinced of the non-existence of your God??Maybe that is the difference between us. You have faith. I have lack of evidence.

Hows about my own personal one?The God hypothesis = God, god or gods exist.Theist = Someone who, for whatever reason, concludes the hypothesis to be correct.Atheist - Someone who, for whatever reason, concludes the hypothesis to be falseAgnostic - Someone who, for whatever reason (uncertainty, indifference, apathy, ignorance etc. etc.) has made no conclusion regards the God hypothesis.Does that not cover all bases without getting bogged down in defining people in ways with which they are uncomfortable or just plai dispute?????

I apologize if there seemed to be some competition in my post.I don't want to make this about me and my, but just for the sake of clarity; I believe that you are talking about moving forward in life, and about how that is something we all have to do regardless of our moral system.I regret using the word 'regret' since I don't go in for melodrama and pity parties. I wouldn't describe myself as a baggage carrier.What I mean to say is that I make mistakes, and many of those mistakes would not be recognizable as such to someone who doesn't have my specific moral principals. Like church attendence. If I miss, who cares? Only me and people like me will judge that.I think that there can be a misunderstanding in those who don't 'trust' atheists. They can judge their own lives and say 'hey, how convenient it would be if I could just stop believing in God and get away with missing church and not feeling bad'. They can only loosely imagine a life where everything is sanctioned because you don't have to worry about hurting God or going to hell. They are picturing something like a child will think of when his parents go on vacation. Free for all. But for an atheist, there never were 'parents'. There is no free for all, because in order to survive, we all have to do certain things anyway.