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Author Topic:   Tell Him Jesus Sent You
Phat
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Posts: 18350
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 11 of 61 (383574)
02-08-2007 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jon
02-06-2007 4:33 PM


Abracus Cadabracus
Jon writes:
I was wondering what other Christians here thought of that. To me, it seems as though with a belief such as that in place, one may permit one's self to do as much wrong as desired, and later it all be washed clean by those two magic words.
One may permit oneself to do anything, but it will take a bit of sincerity behind those magic words.
Perhaps Jar is right---we only need say Hi, and hope that the Deity is in a forgiving mood!
Edited by Phat, : correcticus spellingicus

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18350
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 16 of 61 (383861)
02-09-2007 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Calypso
02-09-2007 9:57 AM


Re: What would I say?
Calypso writes:
I hope you answered him with at least a standard "If you're God then you already know." Or some such. I'd like to hear what your response was.
Thats an issue. IF God appeared in front of you, what would be the reason to ignore Him(Her? :eek
Obviously part of this whole issue is the awareness and influence of Gods presence. IF you were to casually look up and say "Oh! Its you....." then God would not be quite as influential as one would presuppose.
The issue is whether Gods presence supercedes our own right to pick and choose our acknowledgement.

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18350
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 22 of 61 (384375)
02-11-2007 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by ringo
02-09-2007 2:49 PM


Re: What would I say?
Ringo writes:
So, did God give us free will or did He just lend it to us?
Are we expected to give it up when we face Him?
No, but we are expected to use our free will to make a choice. Wishy washiness and taking a long time to make a decision is indicative of stubbornness...and indicates that we already have made a decision.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 25 by ringo, posted 02-11-2007 11:23 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18350
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 24 of 61 (384382)
02-11-2007 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by jar
02-11-2007 11:17 AM


Re: What would I say?
Jar writes:
Could it also be a sign of lack of evidence? Or conflicting evidence? Or a complicated or important decision that requires due consideration? Or tentatively knowing that future evidence might lead to reevaluation?
I suppose so, if one is honest. Some folks will feel more comfortable saying "I don't know..." forever, however....and I suppose that God (IF God exists) would surely understand the honesty of reservation.
The counter accusation touted by the infamous Cult Of Ignorance™ is that humans, being unwilling and incapable of accepting God by nature...will continue not to accept God if left alone.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by jar, posted 02-11-2007 11:31 AM Phat has replied
 Message 40 by nator, posted 02-13-2007 9:23 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18350
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 27 of 61 (384389)
02-11-2007 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by jar
02-11-2007 11:31 AM


Re: What would I say?
Jar writes:
More jabberwocky.
I'm a Jabberwockian specialist!
Jar writes:
And just why should anyone "accept God?"
No particular reason, although I also would ask why anyone should reject God for any reason whatsoever. Absence of Evidence does not equate to evidence of absence.
I used to be an evangelical that believed that it was our collective responsibility (being the enlightened ones, of course) to educate the poor unenlightened masses who were blinded by deception. NOW, of course, I believe that God draws people unto Himself...thus the only thing I am expected to do is live my best and do what I know is right.
Jar writes:
What possible business is it of anybody whether someone other than themselves has "accepted God" (what ever that means)?
Its not about business. We are rehashing an old conversation here...played out a thousand similar ways by thousands of people.

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 Message 26 by jar, posted 02-11-2007 11:31 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by jar, posted 02-11-2007 11:58 AM Phat has replied
 Message 34 by riVeRraT, posted 02-12-2007 9:09 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18350
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 28 of 61 (384392)
02-11-2007 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by ringo
02-11-2007 11:23 AM


Re: What would I say?
Ringo writes:
Don't confuse taking a long time to make a decision with "wishy washiness". Important decisions should not be made hastily and plans should be as flexible as possible.
True. Choosing the right Deity could be viewed as important by some and irrelevant by others, since the proper Deity would be in control by default...regardless of our decisions to accept or reject the concept.
Ringo writes:
What's wrong with deciding not to decide?
Nothing if you are honest with yourself. If you feel an inner unction, however, you would be wise to not dismiss it as an overactive stomach. I can't really speak for anyone other than myself...but when I get an inner unction, I follow it just to be safe.
Ringo writes:
Being overly decisive takes the fun out of life. Do you think that's what God wants from us?
Well....if I can hypothesize the emotions and feelings of God in any way, I would say that God expects us to be honest, open, and willing to embrace Him (Her?) in whatever way that we understand God. I guess that if I were the only guy on the planet that believed in God as I understood Him, I would not be responsible for being His saleman.
(That is a change from how I used to think! )

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Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by ringo, posted 02-11-2007 1:43 PM Phat has replied
 Message 43 by nator, posted 02-13-2007 12:36 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18350
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 30 of 61 (384402)
02-11-2007 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by jar
02-11-2007 11:58 AM


Re: accept God????????
This is where many of us differ and part company beliefwise.
  • Some believe that to accept God is to surrender ones brain and mind and bow to superior intelligence.
  • Others believe that IF God exists, God gave us a brain to use and keep as our inheritance and birthright...and that it does not matter whether or not we accept or even understand God.
    Personally, I believe that God desires that we make an attempt to acknowledge that we ourselves individually and collectively do not know everything nor will we ever and that it is ok to be humble and in awe.
    This is an individual thing, however...and not something to be taught and/or forced on others.

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 29 by jar, posted 02-11-2007 11:58 AM jar has replied

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    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18350
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 32 of 61 (384436)
    02-11-2007 2:42 PM
    Reply to: Message 31 by ringo
    02-11-2007 1:43 PM


    Re: What would I say?
    I guess I would say... err...Shalmom, Al?

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    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18350
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 35 of 61 (384738)
    02-12-2007 9:00 PM
    Reply to: Message 34 by riVeRraT
    02-12-2007 9:09 AM


    Re: What would I say?
    I was saved. One day it just hit me like an epiphany. I cant explain it...but I also believe that God gave me a brain...so i question much of the evangelical reality that I used to embrace. While I could say that I am one of the peculiar people, I don't see myself as exclusive as I used to.

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    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18350
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 42 of 61 (384891)
    02-13-2007 12:32 PM
    Reply to: Message 40 by nator
    02-13-2007 9:23 AM


    Re: What would I say?
    Nator writes:
    On the contrary, all of humanity is extremely willing and capable, by nature, of accepting the supernatural.
    Yes, as long as we feel in control in that we can define it, measure it, and define it. When the idea of a God who is neither able to be controlled, defined, measured or manipulated comes up, however, many people do not feel comfortable with such an idea. The idea that we owe allegiance or at least respect to such a Being rubs many people the wrong way.

    This message is a reply to:
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    Replies to this message:
     Message 46 by nator, posted 02-13-2007 12:45 PM Phat has replied
     Message 51 by Jon, posted 02-13-2007 1:52 PM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18350
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 44 of 61 (384896)
    02-13-2007 12:41 PM
    Reply to: Message 43 by nator
    02-13-2007 12:36 PM


    Re: What would I say?
    Before Copernicus, everyone thought that the cosmos spun around us. Before Christ, we as humans usually view ourselves as the center of attention. Its hard to accept that the best laid plans of mice and men are dependent upon an active Deity. (I'm not a Deist)

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    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18350
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 47 of 61 (384901)
    02-13-2007 12:47 PM
    Reply to: Message 37 by riVeRraT
    02-13-2007 9:07 AM


    Re: What would I say?
    RiverRat writes:
    People say that in a room full of people, who are Spirit filled, you too can feel it. But there are some who don't feel a thing (I was one of them).
    Phat writes:
    I don't necessarily think that anyone can usually tell...but there have been times when the wisdom emanating from someone was unmistakably not theirs alone.
    I guess I am confusing too many thoughts here, and I don't have the time to write them out today, but do you think we should preach the gospel? (not asking how). Or is it a waste of time? Do we even need the bible? Because the bible seems to be a big point of confusion. Not that the bible itself is confusing, but the people interpreting it are confused about it.
  • There is nothing wrong with sharing how good Jesus Christ makes you feel, but I think that in our zeal, many of us (especially born-again newbies) are too much talk and not enough action (or listen)
  • Do we need the Bible? Personally, I have found that I do not need it in order to be effective at sharing. It is useful at times, and without it I become too intellectual and puffed up....(with it too, sometimes though )
    Bottom line, for me...is personal integrity and consistency. If I find that I truly want to make a relationship with someone rather than sell a product, I have better relationships form that are more long lasting.

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 37 by riVeRraT, posted 02-13-2007 9:07 AM riVeRraT has replied

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    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18350
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 48 of 61 (384903)
    02-13-2007 12:51 PM
    Reply to: Message 46 by nator
    02-13-2007 12:45 PM


    Re: What would I say?
    Nator writes:
    The very idea that we owe any proposed god respect or allegiance is nothing more than religious dogma, invented and used to control the followers of that religion.
    So you are saying that Man creates God in his own image?
    What makes you so convinced that God exists and is like a patient though firm teacher, expecting you to come out of your comfort zones and open up to, if not embrace, an unmeasurable unverifiable faith concept?

    This message is a reply to:
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    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18350
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 53 of 61 (385106)
    02-14-2007 7:29 AM
    Reply to: Message 51 by Jon
    02-13-2007 1:52 PM


    Re: What would I say?
    Jonicus writes:
    Either He truly does not care--in which case I feel no obligation to care in return--, or He simply is unable to keep it all together--in which case, I'd rather side with Satan, who clearly has the situation under control.
    Why are these the only two options? You basically have concluded that since God does not rule with an iron phist He is thus inferior to Satan...whom you say you prefer (ludicrous, I might add) or that God is uncaring. You have left out the option that God cares and is quite capable of being God with or without your approval...

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 51 by Jon, posted 02-13-2007 1:52 PM Jon has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 54 by Jon, posted 02-14-2007 8:07 AM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18350
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 55 of 61 (385112)
    02-14-2007 8:42 AM
    Reply to: Message 54 by Jon
    02-14-2007 8:07 AM


    Re: What would I say?
    God has the ability to be in control of everything, I would assume...yet he clearly is not. I would say that every move I make is done either in communion with Him or in communion with the other spirits. Its up to me which gang I choose to run with...NO?
    Edited by Phat, : finished the incomplete sentence that I previously had left dangling.

    This message is a reply to:
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