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Author Topic:   Will The Real God Please Stand Up?
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5914 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 106 of 364 (379997)
01-26-2007 1:46 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by Rob
01-26-2007 12:24 AM


Re: Can I tell the truth, Jesus?
rob writes:
Now that is just insulting and patently strawmanish.
This is not insulting or strawmanish.
A persons religious affiliation is very strongly correlated to the religion of your parents and the surrounding and prevailing cultural.
Apostasy is rare.
rob writes:
If there is no God, there is no freedom for we can only do what we are programmed to do
Absolutely wrong! An unsubstantiated assertion. But that is another topic.
rob writes:
Your projecting your own weakness!
Huh?! Another unsubstantiated assertion that is completely non-sequitur.
rob writes:
But if you take the leap towards Christianity, yu'll have to give up some things... like friends, family, and acceptance in a culture that will mock you and in some cases hate you.
You really do have a martyr complex don't you.
rob writes:
You better stay where you are. Your not strong enough. Now Loki has a hip cult following... there's your salvation!
More martyr dribble and self-congratulation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Rob, posted 01-26-2007 12:24 AM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Rob, posted 01-26-2007 9:26 AM iceage has replied

  
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5914 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 107 of 364 (380001)
01-26-2007 2:13 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
01-22-2007 10:06 AM


phat writes:
each one seeks to be recognized as God, Omnipotant Creator of all things.
Has Loki, the Trickster ever claimed to the Omnipotent Creator? I don't think so. You can show him the door.
Sophia has been assimilated.
I suggest a revision of the OP.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Phat, posted 01-22-2007 10:06 AM Phat has not replied

  
Malachi-II
Member (Idle past 6243 days)
Posts: 139
From: Sussex, England
Joined: 04-10-2006


Message 108 of 364 (380009)
01-26-2007 3:34 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by ringo
01-25-2007 2:48 PM


Re: I am late but I am here if you chose to have faith
I did not contradict myself. You failed to understand the meaning of 'temporary'.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by ringo, posted 01-25-2007 2:48 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by ringo, posted 01-26-2007 12:08 PM Malachi-II has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 109 of 364 (380014)
01-26-2007 4:27 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Rob
01-23-2007 11:40 PM


Re: Can I tell the truth, Jesus?
Ringo, to be fair, the only verifiable I.D. that we have in this courtroom are the 4 people that we see in the front of the courtroom.
All of us can imagine them quite clearly. Any other Deities that are introduced as witnesses and/or candidates for our next lineup will have been verified to exist by at least five sound-minded nominating committee members. In other words, Harvey the Big Rabbit or the Invisible Pink Unicorn would not qualify unless the nominating committee wished to consider another Urban Legend more popular than our buddy the Spaghetti Monster.(Who is great at communion, BTW. )
The reason that I chose these particular four Deities in my initial post was that both Jesus and Lady Wisdom are mentioned in the Bible (a sticking point in much of our debates) while Loki was proposed by Jar as being as likely to be God as anyone else in the evidence category.
Let me first address the matter of verifiable I.D.
Concerning the matter of allowing or disallowing the Bible, I propose that it be allowed in a limited presentation. Rob, for example, could be a witness for the defense and be asked to testify on the stand about why his Bible changed him. Upon cross examination, he could be asked whether it was Jesus or Lady Wisdom that changed him. The defense may attempt to suggest that Robs behavior in the courtroom be allowed as evidence of his change, but they may elect to not use Rob as a witness on their behalf.
Lady Wisdom is no fool! BTW...Rob, you have not been asked to be quiet yet. The court merely asks that you only speak when called to the stand.
May it please the court to introduce evidence for Sophia aka Lady Wisdom as the Deity:
The Message writes:
Lady Wisdom
20-21 Lady Wisdom goes out in the street and shouts.
At the town center she makes her speech.
In the middle of the traffic she takes her stand.
At the busiest corner she calls out:
22-24 "Simpletons! How long will you wallow in ignorance?
Cynics! How long will you feed your cynicism?
Idiots! How long will you refuse to learn?
About face! I can revise your life.
Look, I'm ready to pour out my spirit on you;
I'm ready to tell you all I know.
As it is, I've called, but you've turned a deaf ear;
I've reached out to you, but you've ignored me.
25-28 "Since you laugh at my counsel
and make a joke of my advice,
How can I take you seriously?
I'll turn the tables and joke about your troubles!
What if the roof falls in,
and your whole life goes to pieces?
What if catastrophe strikes and there's nothing
to show for your life but rubble and ashes?
You'll need me then. You'll call for me, but don't expect
an answer.
No matter how hard you look, you won't find me.
29-33 "Because you hated Knowledge
and had nothing to do with the Fear-of-God,
Because you wouldn't take my advice
and brushed aside all my offers to train you,
Well, you've made your bed”now lie in it;
you wanted your own way”now, how do you like it?
Don't you see what happens, you simpletons, you idiots?
Carelessness kills; complacency is murder.
First pay attention to me, and then relax.
Now you can take it easy”you're in good hands."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Rob, posted 01-23-2007 11:40 PM Rob has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by ringo, posted 01-26-2007 12:23 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 110 of 364 (380017)
01-26-2007 4:41 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by Greatest I am
01-24-2007 1:45 AM


Re: I am late but I am here if you chose to have faith
The court now calls Greatest I am to the stand.
We have a few questions to ask you about your statement. Since Jesus is already representing His Father, we wanted to ask you some questions to determine if you would make a good witness for the defense.
1) You said:
Do not expect our discussions to be easily understood. You must realize that expressing concepts into words is often time hard, especially when some of these concepts are not as we have been conditioned to think. Logic must prevail.
Why is logic so hard to understand? Are you of sound mind and body? Have you read a variety of books on alternative belief systems?
2) You said:
This prophet has gained much knowledge and wisdom from direct contact. I hope it will suffice to clarify the reality we all live in.
We may be able to use a prophet, but I have a question or two for you first. How many of the candidates in front of this court have you had direct contact with? (Brief answer, please.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Greatest I am, posted 01-24-2007 1:45 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Greatest I am, posted 01-26-2007 6:33 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 273 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 111 of 364 (380028)
01-26-2007 6:33 AM
Reply to: Message 110 by Phat
01-26-2007 4:41 AM


Re: I am late but I am here if you chose to have faith
On logic. It's been my experience that for whatever reason, those that I have spoken with have had a hard time with logic. Possibly because instead of replying back with logic they reply with quotes from the Bible instead of their own words.
I have read eight Bibles. The message of these books is basically the same.
I am a new member and you are the only one to date to ask any questions that deserved a reply. You will notice that I do not use the quote system that often. I also enjoy brevity. It weed out those who cannot think for themselves.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Phat, posted 01-26-2007 4:41 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5848 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 112 of 364 (380066)
01-26-2007 9:22 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by anastasia
01-26-2007 12:41 AM


Re: Can I tell the truth, Jesus?
So you have rebelled against christianity?
I did for a time. I rebelled against religion. I wanted something real. Trurned out my folks were closer than I thought.
I was raised Catholic by my step father. My grandfathers on my mothers side were both protestant preachers. So you might say it is in the blood.
My mother became a Catholic as well. She had always been a religious Christian. Even as a Nazarene like her father.
She now attends a Baptist church and we have a wonderful relationship.
My step father doesn't understand anything that I say. He told me, ' I don't know Robert, I listen to the pope. Any public talk of Christ only embarasses him.
It's very sad.
My point was that any healthy person questions truth claims and assumptions. And especially their own. And non believers think this only applies to the 'religious'. They do not realize that they are religious as well, because every philosophy is a religion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by anastasia, posted 01-26-2007 12:41 AM anastasia has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by Phat, posted 01-26-2007 10:34 AM Rob has not replied

  
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5848 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 113 of 364 (380067)
01-26-2007 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by iceage
01-26-2007 1:46 AM


Re: Can I tell the truth, Jesus?
Apostasy is rare.
Is that why you follow the disbelief and cynicism of your parents?
That is why rebellion is so important. And a Christian, is the biggest rebel. Christ being the leader of the rebellion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by iceage, posted 01-26-2007 1:46 AM iceage has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by iceage, posted 01-26-2007 9:37 AM Rob has replied

  
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5914 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 114 of 364 (380071)
01-26-2007 9:37 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by Rob
01-26-2007 9:26 AM


Re: Can I tell the truth, Jesus?
Rob you can be annoying.
rob writes:
Is that why you follow the disbelief and cynicism of your parents?
Now that was insulting and personal. Maybe you are being a wee bit presumptuous. You know nothing of my parents or my background.
rob writes:
And a Christian, is the biggest rebel.
Maybe, but you are the poorest excuse of a Christian I have had the displeasure to meet.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Rob, posted 01-26-2007 9:26 AM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by Rob, posted 01-26-2007 9:54 AM iceage has replied

  
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5848 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 115 of 364 (380074)
01-26-2007 9:54 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by iceage
01-26-2007 9:37 AM


Re: Can I tell the truth, Jesus?
Maybe, but you are the poorest excuse of a Christian I have had the displeasure to meet.
Thank you! You don't know how much that means to me. We're making progress...
If the world loved me, then I would not be a Christian. Or at least I would be one in need of some repentance and rebuke.
The world hates Christians even more that Christ. A servant is despised more than the master.
Edited by Rob, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by iceage, posted 01-26-2007 9:37 AM iceage has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by iceage, posted 01-26-2007 10:09 AM Rob has replied

  
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5914 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 116 of 364 (380078)
01-26-2007 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by Rob
01-26-2007 9:54 AM


Re: Can I tell the truth, Jesus?
rob writes:
Thank you! You don't know how much that means to me
Ya I suspect you would take pleasure in falsely insulting and discrediting someone's parents.
FWIW, My parents would be considered devout Christian by any measure.
rob writes:
if the world loved me, then I would not be a Christian
Will you stop with the self-congratulating martyrdom.
rob writes:
If the world loved me, then I would not be a Christian.
The world doesn't like Jeffery Dailmer either, so.
rob writes:
The world hates Christians even more that Christ. A servant is despised more than the master.
This is absurd. If anything you dishonor Christ and glorify yourself.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Rob, posted 01-26-2007 9:54 AM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by Rob, posted 01-26-2007 10:14 AM iceage has not replied

  
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5848 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 117 of 364 (380080)
01-26-2007 10:14 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by iceage
01-26-2007 10:09 AM


Re: Can I tell the truth, Jesus?
I'm not here to get into an insult contest... but if you want to glorify yourself, then go on Iceage... Show them your a man. Put me under your feet.
I'll take a bullet for you. I'll swim accross the sea to tell you it's for real. You can't keep a good man down.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by iceage, posted 01-26-2007 10:09 AM iceage has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 118 of 364 (380084)
01-26-2007 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by Rob
01-26-2007 9:22 AM


Be quiet and let the Rocks cry out
Rob, you were asked to be quiet until called upon by this committee. We again ask you for silence. We are interwiewing another witness at this time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Rob, posted 01-26-2007 9:22 AM Rob has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 119 of 364 (380107)
01-26-2007 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Malachi-II
01-26-2007 3:34 AM


Re: I am late but I am here if you chose to have faith
Malachi-II writes:
You failed to understand the meaning of 'temporary'.
Actually, you failed to understand it. If you can temporarily poof yourself legs once, then you can temporarily do it again.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Malachi-II, posted 01-26-2007 3:34 AM Malachi-II has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by Malachi-II, posted 01-26-2007 3:08 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 120 of 364 (380114)
01-26-2007 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by Phat
01-26-2007 4:27 AM


Re: Can I tell the truth, Jesus?
Phat writes:
Concerning the matter of allowing or disallowing the Bible, I propose that it be allowed in a limited presentation.
The Bible can be used, but it can not be treated as authoritative.
The fact that the Flying Spaghetti Monster or Harvey the pookah are not mentioned in the Bible can not be taken as evidence against them. Similarly, the fact that Jesus or Sophia are mentioned in the Bible can not be taken as evidence in their favour.
In the question of "Who is God?", the Bible can carry no more weight than the Bhagavad-Gita or The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn or the adventures of Huckleberry Hound.
... the only verifiable I.D. that we have in this courtroom are the 4 people that we see in the front of the courtroom.
Their identification is the question, not the answer.

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Phat, posted 01-26-2007 4:27 AM Phat has not replied

  
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