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Author Topic:   Destruction of Pompei is 1631 year.
elcano
Member (Idle past 4304 days)
Posts: 60
From: Moscow
Joined: 01-12-2007


Message 1 of 132 (376775)
01-13-2007 6:36 PM


All data on 14C are based on the assumption, that Pompeii were lost in 79 year.
There are facts, that the city was lost on December, 16th, 1631.
What is correctly?
On the Via Nazionale road from Naples to Reggio/Calabria, at 15 km, a so-called "Epitaphio" on the face of the Villa Faraone Mennella today presents two memorial inscriptions in Latin on a monumental volcanic stone.
"This road from Naples to Reggio [i.e. the Royal City], infamous for continuous robberies [raids] and difficult transit on account of the arid stones of Mount Vesuvius, has been freed from ambush, levelled, straightened and broadened, by means of the funds given by the Province.
Later 68 years in 17 Calend. (on December, 16th) January in Phillip's reign IV.
Smoke, flame, roaring, shaking, ashes, eruption awfully wild at that time Vesuvius has obviously caused fear in one, and at weight of people. The heated heat from an aperture of the fiery cave, violently loudly roaring, has opened the way through constraining surface to an output, has moved to Hellespont, has furiously destroyed top of mountain, monstrously suddenly widely having opened a pharynx of mountain, next day a tail of ashes was dragged all filling similarly to the sea hostile to the sea. The river of the sulfur, burning bitumen, fetid stones, the various deformed metal ores, a mix of water and fire, moving an avalanche, a smoke, ashes, disastrous sewage have unloaded a ridge of mountain.
Pompeii, Herculaneum, Octavianum, partially Retina and Portici, woods and country houses, and houses has in a flash scattered, has burnt, has destroyed, (stream) bearing all this before itself, as extraction in mad devastating triumph. Marble monuments have disappeared actually also, are deeply buried, the inquiring monument of Vice-king has really been destroyed. Emmanuel Fonseca and Zunica.
As memory of the sizes of human disaster, as well about the accepted measures on clearing of a stone rain and rescue completely each of our fellow tribesmen. Year of Redemption 1634. Prefect of road of Antonio Suares Messia." Torreomnia on Vesuvius
Edited by elcano, : No reason given.
Edited by elcano, : No reason given.
Edited by elcano, : No reason given.
Edited by AdminNosy, : shorten links

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elcano
Member (Idle past 4304 days)
Posts: 60
From: Moscow
Joined: 01-12-2007


Message 3 of 132 (376781)
01-13-2007 6:48 PM


All data on 14C are based on the assumption, that Pompeii were lost in 79 year.
There are facts, that the city was lost on December, 16th, 1631.
What is correctly?

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elcano
Member (Idle past 4304 days)
Posts: 60
From: Moscow
Joined: 01-12-2007


Message 5 of 132 (376789)
01-13-2007 7:25 PM


Calibration of radiometric methods is spent on known historical dates. But there are facts confirming, that the date of destruction accepted today Pompeii not correct. One of the facts also is resulted by me.

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elcano
Member (Idle past 4304 days)
Posts: 60
From: Moscow
Joined: 01-12-2007


Message 8 of 132 (377202)
01-15-2007 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by elcano
01-13-2007 7:25 PM


for Wepwawet
If Pompeii were destroyed in 79 year why the city is resulted on maps tabula Peutingeriana (the fourth century),
Ambrogio Leone's De Nola (1514), John Adams Library
Ortelius (1570). http://memory.loc.gov/
Edited by AdminAsgara, : changed long url to fix page width
Edited by AdminNosy, : shorten links

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elcano
Member (Idle past 4304 days)
Posts: 60
From: Moscow
Joined: 01-12-2007


Message 9 of 132 (377208)
01-15-2007 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by RAZD
01-15-2007 2:24 PM


Re: Carbon-14 does NOT rely on vesuvius at ALL
For all archeological finds dated by time till 15 centuries, relative chronological scale is constructed on the assumption, that Pompeii was destroyed in 79 year. Measurements with use 14C are confirmed with these data +-100 years. However Pompeii were destroyed on December, 16th, 1631 (the inscription on a monument gives such date) and all relative chronologically a scale it is necessary to lead to this date. It is 17 century and a method 14C in this interval simply does not work.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by CK, posted 01-15-2007 3:45 PM elcano has replied
 Message 13 by dwise1, posted 01-15-2007 3:58 PM elcano has replied
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elcano
Member (Idle past 4304 days)
Posts: 60
From: Moscow
Joined: 01-12-2007


Message 12 of 132 (377213)
01-15-2007 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by CK
01-15-2007 3:45 PM


Re: Confused
There is a monument in Torre del Greco where date of destruction Pompeii is resulted.
Toremnia on Vesuvius
We have the following message.
Luce iam sexta decimal Decembris; Sexdecim seclis pariter peractis:
Atque sex lustris prope iam voluto Mensibus anno.
Saxa ructantem glomerata flammis; Igne combustos cineres Veseuum
Vidimus, circum penitus ruentem Ruraque, Villas.
Igneus Naphthae fluuius recursat; Vnde Pompeios Populos, & agros
Funditos vastat, ruit Herculanum, Et pecus omne.
Motibus diris tremuere turres, Ictibus crebris quatiuntur aedes;
Et cauernoso resonat boatu Vesubius ore. Giuliani Gianbernardino, 1632, Trattato del Monte Vesuvio e de' suoi incendi, Napoli - p.181
http://mdz1.bib-bvb.de/...
Date can be understood without text translation. The lost cities are mentioned.
Edited by AdminAsgara, : fixed url length to fix page width
Edited by AdminNosy, : shorten link

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elcano
Member (Idle past 4304 days)
Posts: 60
From: Moscow
Joined: 01-12-2007


Message 14 of 132 (377217)
01-15-2007 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Percy
01-15-2007 3:35 PM


Yes there is channel Domenico Fontana (underground pass in length 1764 m. passing through all city) but why this gallery is under a surface of the dug out city. Possibly Domenico Fontana has lead the channel through alive city and has found the rests of more ancient Pompeii. The channel passes under the temples mentioned by you.

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elcano
Member (Idle past 4304 days)
Posts: 60
From: Moscow
Joined: 01-12-2007


Message 15 of 132 (377218)
01-15-2007 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by dwise1
01-15-2007 3:58 PM


Re: Carbon-14 does NOT rely on vesuvius at ALL
The text from book Misson
VIII.& LX. post annos XVII. Calend. Januaris, Philippo IV. Rege; fumo (‘); flames, boatu(), concussu(), cinere (‘‘), irruptione, horrificus si unquam Vesuvius, nec nomen, nec faces tanti Viri extiruit. Quippe exardescente cuuis specubus igne; ignites, furens; irrugie; exitum eluctans coercitus aer, disjecto violenter Montis culmine, immani erupit hiatus postridie, ejaculatus trans Hellespontum cinerem, pone trahens ad explendam viam Pelagus, immite Pelagus, fluvios sulphureos flammatum bitumen, faetas alumina cautes, informe cujusque, metallic rudus, mixtum aquarum voluminibus ignem, ferventemque undante fumo cinerem, seseque, funestamque colluviem jugo Montis exonerans; Pompeios, Herculanum, Octavianum, perstrictis Reatina(m) & Portici, Sylvasque, Villasque, Aedesque momento stravit, ussit (‘), diruit (‘‘ ); luctuosam prae se praedam agens, vastumque triumphum. Perierat hoc quoque Marmar alte sepultum, consultissimi Monumentum Proregis. Ne peraetat, Emmanuel Fonseca & Zunica Com. Mont. Reg. Pror. Qua(m) animi magnitudine publicae calamitati ea private consuluit, extractum funditus gentiles sui lapidem. Coelo restituit, viam restauravit, fumante adhuc & indignante Vesevo.
An. Sal. (I) I)C. XXXIV. Praefecto viarum Antonio Suarez Messia March vici K IIJ
Auteur(s) : Misson, Maximilien (1650?-1722)
Titre(s) : Voyage d'Italie [Texte imprime] : ed. augm. de remarques nouvelles et interessantes / par Maximilien Misson
Publication : Amsterdam : Clousier, 1743
"Voyages en Italie" - Gallica

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elcano
Member (Idle past 4304 days)
Posts: 60
From: Moscow
Joined: 01-12-2007


Message 18 of 132 (377226)
01-15-2007 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Percy
01-15-2007 4:28 PM


I do not know, that does mine ISP, can glance on our Russian site, there there are my messages with the same anybody.
Russian Link
Edited by elcano, : No reason given.
Edited by AdminNosy, : shorten link

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elcano
Member (Idle past 4304 days)
Posts: 60
From: Moscow
Joined: 01-12-2007


Message 19 of 132 (377228)
01-15-2007 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Taz
01-15-2007 4:44 PM


What is creo?
There are surprising facts and with them it would be desirable to understand.

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elcano
Member (Idle past 4304 days)
Posts: 60
From: Moscow
Joined: 01-12-2007


Message 21 of 132 (377233)
01-15-2007 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by dwise1
01-15-2007 5:05 PM


Re: Confused
Luce iam sexta decimal Decembris; Sexdecim seclis pariter peractis:
Atque sex lustris prope iam voluto Mensibus anno.
It is date December, 16th, 1631.

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Replies to this message:
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elcano
Member (Idle past 4304 days)
Posts: 60
From: Moscow
Joined: 01-12-2007


Message 30 of 132 (377379)
01-16-2007 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by dwise1
01-15-2007 7:10 PM


Re: So where's that problem, elcano?
Who is the witness of destruction Pompeii and Herculaneum in 79 year? (Xiphilin the author of 11 centuries!)
The monument in Torre del Greco approves, that Pompeii and Herculaneum have been destroyed in 1631.
In previous I already wrote messages, there are witnesses of destruction of these cities In 1631 (Guliani, Moscolo).
There are maps 16 - 17 centuries on which are present cities which were lost 1500 years ago. Why?
All the mentioned facts confirm destruction Pompeii and Herculaneum in 1631.
What facts confirm destruction Pompeii and Herculaneum in 79 year?
Such facts is not available. There are only incorrectly dating archeological finds.

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Replies to this message:
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elcano
Member (Idle past 4304 days)
Posts: 60
From: Moscow
Joined: 01-12-2007


Message 32 of 132 (377384)
01-16-2007 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Wepwawet
01-15-2007 8:11 PM


Re: Still paying attention here
Wepwawet write,
"Anyway, the evidence that the city of Pompeii was destroyed in the first century is overwhelming. Cite all the documents you like; you can walk the streets of Pompeii and see that it is a first century city and not one from the seventeenth. Elcano needs to stop this blathering and address why no seventeenth century structures or artifacts have been unearthed at the site."
Look the message (28) from dwise1
After 79 years there were 16 eruptions of Vesuvius and any gram of ashes has not dropped out in area Pompeii.
What facts confirm destruction Pompeii and Herculaneum in 79 year?
Such facts is not available. There are only incorrectly dating archeological finds.

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Replies to this message:
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elcano
Member (Idle past 4304 days)
Posts: 60
From: Moscow
Joined: 01-12-2007


Message 33 of 132 (377386)
01-16-2007 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by jar
01-16-2007 2:45 PM


Re: So where's that problem, elcano?
I already spoke, Pliny the Younger not know anything about the city of Pompeii. In its book “Letters” there is no such city.

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 Message 31 by jar, posted 01-16-2007 2:45 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by jar, posted 01-16-2007 2:58 PM elcano has replied

  
elcano
Member (Idle past 4304 days)
Posts: 60
From: Moscow
Joined: 01-12-2007


Message 35 of 132 (377403)
01-16-2007 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by jar
01-16-2007 2:58 PM


Re: Pliny the Younger.
Pliny the Younger knows such date in 1963
Erat Miseni classemque imperio praesens regebat. Nonum
kal. Septembres hora fere septima mater mea indicat ei
adparere nubem inusitata et magnitudine et specie.
(Epistulae, VI,16,4) C. Plini Caecili Secundi epistolarum libri decem. Recognouit brevique adnotatione critica instruxit R. A. B. Mynors.
E typographeo Clarendoniano: Oxonii, 1963.
It knows only on August, 24th, but it does not know year.
And in 1515 it knows other date.
lib VI.16 (P.156) Erat Miseni, classemque imperio praesens regebat Nouemb. kalen. hora fere septima mater mea indicat ei, .
Auteur(s) : Pline le Jeune (0061?-0114?)
Rubriques de classement : latin). 1515
Titre(s) : C. Plinii Caecilii Secundi novo commensis epistolae omnium,... [Document electronique]
Type de ressource electronique : Donnees textuelles
Publication : 1995
Description materielle : 493 p.
Note(s) : Reproduction : Num. BNF de l'ed. de Cambridge (Mass.) : Omnisys, [ca 1990] (Italian books before 1601 ; 104.1). 1 microfilmReprod. de l'ed. de [S.l.] : [s.n.], [1515]
It knows on first of November, but also it does not know year.
Old editions can look on Gallica and see when there is a date on August, 24th.

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