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Author Topic:   I met God
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 91 of 108 (376561)
01-12-2007 5:51 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Kader
01-12-2007 5:42 PM


Re: on voices
Kader writes:
Well some example have been given
Message 8 and Message 18
Second-hand reports?
The ones in Message 18 could be exaggerating, lying, deluded.... We don't know. We can't treat hearsay as evidence.
The ones in Message 8 are people that I "know" - and I don't recall them claiming that God speaks to them audibly in English.
I think you're being too literal-minded.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Kader, posted 01-12-2007 5:42 PM Kader has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by Kader, posted 01-12-2007 6:26 PM ringo has replied

  
Kader
Member (Idle past 3726 days)
Posts: 156
Joined: 12-20-2006


Message 92 of 108 (376575)
01-12-2007 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by ringo
01-12-2007 5:51 PM


Re: on voices
Second-hand reports?
The ones in Message 18 could be exaggerating, lying, deluded.... We don't know. We can't treat hearsay as evidence.
But if you believe God exist why don't you believe God can speak to people ?
Although in case you didn't know, I do not believe that God spoke to them, I do not believe that God spoke to anyone in my lifetime.
What you seem to believe is that God talk to us but not in plain english. Why the distinction ?
The ones in Message 8 are people that I "know" - and I don't recall them claiming that God speaks to them audibly in English.
I think you're being too literal-minded.
Well I do no know them, did Gasby misinterpreted ?
Anyways, my examples are still there though, and many many more are available throughout internet for you to read. People claim that God speaks to them, in PLAIN english. So either all theses person are deluded, lie, or a schizophrenic, I can't say. BUt my position is nobody ever heard God, and everyone (just like todays) attribute whatever they want as being message from God.
And also note that people from very different religions claim the same thing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by ringo, posted 01-12-2007 5:51 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by ringo, posted 01-12-2007 6:40 PM Kader has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 93 of 108 (376579)
01-12-2007 6:40 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by Kader
01-12-2007 6:26 PM


Re: on voices
Kader writes:
But if you believe God exist why don't you believe God can speak to people ?
Did I say either of those things?
I think I said that all human beings tend to have the same kinds of experiences. Some people interpret some of their experiences as "God speaking to them". Others interpret the same experiences in different ways.
What you seem to believe is that God talk to us but not in plain english. Why the distinction ?
Why would God speak to us in plain English?
Well I do no know them, did Gasby misinterpreted ?
I don't think Gasby suggested that God spoke to those EvC members audibly in English. I don't recall any of them saying that and I do seem to recall some of them saying that it was not audible English that they interpreted as the "voice of God".
We'll have to leave it up to them to clarify.

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This message is a reply to:
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anastasia
Member (Idle past 5952 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 94 of 108 (376602)
01-12-2007 8:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Kader
01-11-2007 11:43 AM


Here are a few thoughts for you, Kader.
I believe God speaks to me. No, not in English, not out loud, not with visions. It is probably more proper for me to say the spirit of God, or the Holy Sirit, or whatever you will, speaks to me. I don't think I am alone. But I will try to explain...
When I think fo God speaking to me, I think of moments where I feel clarity.
I can recognize the results of a bad action; we all know someone who seems like the have no clue that what they are doing is causing their own misery.
I can think critically, take a step back and see things for what they are; we all know someone who can't see outside their own box.
I can act moderately; we ALL know someone who acts rashly and obscenely in the name of God.
I can comprehend, I can prioritize, I can stay calm and focused. If you look around the forum you can see examples of folk who are way better at these things than I am, and they all have different beliefs.
God IS speaking, to all of us, and we need to get rid of all of the noise so we can hear. But don't, for heavens sake, expect big things.
God really isn't going to tell you anything that makes you better than anyone else on earth. He won't tell you when you will die, because you couldn't live with the knowledge. He won't tell you when the world will end, and He won't tell you that He exists. You will just KNOW because you will know that you yourself couldn't have done so well on your own.
Sorry if that is preachy...you kinda asked for it.
And BTW...if GW Bush and your other sources claim to have spoken with God, and if they absolutely swear to it... in other words, if there IS a God and a devil, and we can hear God, we could surely hear the devil as well.
BTW again...I believe that God has given some people visions, just not me myself. Do you know what is the first thing they say 'I am going crazy', or, 'the devil talks to me'. No one that I know of who has been a visionary has said 'God told me'. When God talks, it is usually to the humble.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Kader, posted 01-11-2007 11:43 AM Kader has not replied

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 5194 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 95 of 108 (376610)
01-12-2007 8:58 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by jar
01-12-2007 9:47 AM


Re: Just answers? Or Questions?
Jar,
If the being-that-created-the-cosmos wants to talk to me it should be easy. Why can't I hear him/she/it?
I don't know.
Fair 'nuff.
But doesn't that beg the question that people aren't "hearing god" at all, but "signs" that otherwise would be meaningless except in the context of their evidentially vacuous interpretation?
Shit happens to good people as much as bad, so maybe god wants to speak up a bit. Moreover, since muslims only hear Allah, Christians Yahweh, & anyone who is pantheistic hears many gods, doesn't that make you a wee bit skeptical that maybe a deity isn't involved at all? It isn't like anyone actually SPEAKS to you, after all.
I'm not really having a pop, you are one of my favourite posters & I wish every Christian shared your views, I'm just making an observational corollary. We can't agree on everything .
Mark

There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by jar, posted 01-12-2007 9:47 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by jar, posted 01-12-2007 9:03 PM mark24 has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 96 of 108 (376611)
01-12-2007 9:03 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by mark24
01-12-2007 8:58 PM


Re: Just answers? Or Questions?
Moreover, since muslims only hear Allah, Christians Yahweh, & anyone who is pantheistic hears many gods, doesn't that make you a wee bit skeptical that maybe a deity isn't involved at all?
Remember that religions are just Maps, not the Territory. Christianity is not GOD. Nor is Islam GOD.
Why can't GOD speak to people through the Map of their choice?
It isn't like anyone actually SPEAKS to you, after all.
Really? Are you sure?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by mark24, posted 01-12-2007 8:58 PM mark24 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by mark24, posted 01-13-2007 5:24 AM jar has replied

  
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5848 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 97 of 108 (376642)
01-13-2007 12:29 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by Kader
01-12-2007 10:41 AM


if God spoke to YOU, are you more special then me ?
No, actually I am less special.
God spoke to me because I admitted that I am a sinner.
It's not complicated.
If we cannot admit that, then we are not truthful. And the key to hearing God is being truthful.
John 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
You want proof of God's existence?
God says, first prove to me you really want the truth.
Are you willing to give up the wealth of your good name that you have crafted so carefully?
Have you ever told a lie?

This message is a reply to:
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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3993 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 98 of 108 (376653)
01-13-2007 1:28 AM


No takers for a malaria cure from you God-Chatters? Maybe the line to the Big Guy is busy?

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by jar, posted 01-13-2007 1:37 AM Nighttrain has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 99 of 108 (376655)
01-13-2007 1:37 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by Nighttrain
01-13-2007 1:28 AM


But there are already cures for malaria
There are quite a few treatments. The problem is not that GOD didn't give us the brains to deal with things like malaria, it is that we don't follow through and get what is needed, where it is needed, when it is needed. That isn't GOD's failing, but ours.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Nighttrain, posted 01-13-2007 1:28 AM Nighttrain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Nighttrain, posted 01-13-2007 2:14 AM jar has replied
 Message 102 by Straggler, posted 01-13-2007 6:28 AM jar has replied

  
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3993 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 100 of 108 (376662)
01-13-2007 2:14 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by jar
01-13-2007 1:37 AM


Re: But there are already cures for malaria
Have to disagree, O Hairy One. Only one villain in the piece--the dude that created this vile, multi-layered disease that either kills or debilitates for life. Whether it 'evolved' after creation, or was initially set up as a major killer with full knowledge of its coming effects, too many have suffered before science got a handle on its treatment. Now if you come at it from the viewpoint of a natural phenomenon in a God-less world, that`s another story.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by jar, posted 01-13-2007 1:37 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by jar, posted 01-13-2007 1:14 PM Nighttrain has not replied

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 5194 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 101 of 108 (376694)
01-13-2007 5:24 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by jar
01-12-2007 9:03 PM


Re: Just answers? Or Questions?
Jar,
It isn't like anyone actually SPEAKS to you, after all.
Really? Are you sure?
That's diagnosed as schizophrenia, I believe.
But yeah, I'm pretty sure that a supreme being that brought the cosmos into being, that was both omniscient & omnipotent wouldn't fail to get mine & others attention when he/she/it demanded it.
I just don't buy this "perhaps you aren't listening when the supreme being bellows in your ear" stuff. It just seems like it would be something impossible to ignore. It would mean god wasn't omnipotent for a start, if he couldn't communicate when he/she/it desired.
Mark

There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by jar, posted 01-12-2007 9:03 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by jar, posted 01-13-2007 1:21 PM mark24 has not replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 102 of 108 (376697)
01-13-2007 6:28 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by jar
01-13-2007 1:37 AM


Maps Malaria and Other Natural Misfortunes
There are quite a few treatments. The problem is not that GOD didn't give us the brains to deal with things like malaria, it is that we don't follow through and get what is needed, where it is needed, when it is needed. That isn't GOD's failing, but ours.
Malaria is a very specific example but there are numerous other diseases, natural disasters and other examples of extreme misfortune that afflict people.
These seem utterly random with no bearing on which map is being used, whether you have a map or not, whether you converse regularly with God or whether you believe conversing with God to be seriously delusional.
Given that those who have maps and converse with God are no more or less likely to experience extreme suffering can we conclude that having a map and conversing with God is of no actual practical benefit at all?
(I would actually suggest that it is the parts of the world most predisposed to religion that are also those which suffer the most death and disease by natural means. So, statistically at least, you might be better off without any communication with God)
'Spiritual' benefit (whatever exactly that is) can take many forms and can be attributed to many sources. The awe of nature, inner peace through meditation, aura cleansing and other new age practices or whatever.
Attributing it to God is just an arbitary choice.
So, given that I am a mapless heathen who has found other means of achieving spiritual health and that the various maps seem to have no practical value at all, is it not logical to conclude that all the maps are equally useless in practise and that those chatting to God are fooling themselves by attributing the basis of their spiritual health to something that exists only within their own heads?
This is my conclusion so if it is a wrong conclusion where am I going wrong?
If my thinking is sound how is it that so many others, including yourself, are so utterly convinced of the opposite view?
Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.
Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by jar, posted 01-13-2007 1:37 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by jar, posted 01-13-2007 1:38 PM Straggler has replied

  
truthlover
Member (Idle past 4059 days)
Posts: 1548
From: Selmer, TN
Joined: 02-12-2003


Message 103 of 108 (376726)
01-13-2007 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Kader
01-11-2007 4:28 PM


Re: Just answers? Or Questions?
I just skipped 98 posts to post this answer. I'll read more later.
They don't believe in him mainly because he never did anything. no phonce calls, no letter, no memos... God is simply non existant to the atheist.
If I went just by my answers to why questions, I'd be an agnostic, too. Why suffering, why does God not speak to everyone, etc.
I don't. I read John's Gospel, got fascinated with the man Jesus, had several unusual incidents happen to provoke belief, and then told someone I was ready to believe and the world changed. That's me. Based on studying the teachings of this Christ, here's my answer to why God is "non-existent" to the atheist.
From the beginning, according to the religion that Jesus' apostles passed on, God has always chosen a person to build a nation with. God would be God to that nation, and through them reveal himself to others. They fail, and God looks bad.
Seems dumb to me, but I'm not God. Most of Christianity is a counterfeit religion having not much to do with what Jesus' apostles taught or their churches lived during those first couple centuries. The rest, that's not counterfeit, is rare and notoriously unsuccessful.
Those first couple centuries, though, they were not unsuccessful, but very powerful, and those who encountered them were quite ready to acknowledge the power they had with God.
I don't know why Jesus doesn't have more such churches nowadays. I feel like where I live, people are impacted by the church, and those who encounter us don't get to be the same anymore. God touches them.
Why he does it like that, I have no idea. Sure looks like it's true in experience and application, though.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Kader, posted 01-11-2007 4:28 PM Kader has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 104 of 108 (376728)
01-13-2007 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Nighttrain
01-13-2007 2:14 AM


Re: But there are already cures for malaria
Only one villain in the piece--the dude that created this vile, multi-layered disease that either kills or debilitates for life.
The question you ask is a good one and I would love to discuss it with you, but this thread is not the place. It is something that does need to be discussed and I once spent considerable time with Gilgamesh (also from down your way IIRC).
Start a thread on it and I will be happy to at the least, show you how I see it.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 105 of 108 (376729)
01-13-2007 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by mark24
01-13-2007 5:24 AM


Re: Just answers? Or Questions?
But yeah, I'm pretty sure that a supreme being that brought the cosmos into being, that was both omniscient & omnipotent wouldn't fail to get mine & others attention when he/she/it demanded it.
But does he/she/it demand it?
I just don't buy this "perhaps you aren't listening when the supreme being bellows in your ear" stuff. It just seems like it would be something impossible to ignore. It would mean god wasn't omnipotent for a start, if he couldn't communicate when he/she/it desired.
But again, is there any indication he/she/it desires to talk to you? Quite frankly, when GOD talks to me it is usually through a dope slap. Maybe you haven't needed as many as me and I always knew Mother loved you best.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by mark24, posted 01-13-2007 5:24 AM mark24 has not replied

  
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