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Author Topic:   Fulfilled Prophecy
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 31 of 303 (374245)
01-03-2007 9:51 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Buzsaw
01-03-2007 9:00 PM


Re: Not Prophecy but rather Nonsense.
Cite them and we'll discuss them and compare them to the significance and extent of what is going on now.
What's going on now isn't relevant. It's no prophecy if the "prophecy" refers to something contemporary to the writing. It doesn't matter if it happens later, too. If I predict "trouble in the Middle East", it's no prophecy, not even if a nuclear bomb levels Tehran in 2021.
The question is - did cashless transactions occur contemporary to the writing of the statement? They did, of course, so it can't be considered prophecy, regardless of what happens later. Prophecy means predicting things before they happen, not while they're happening.
They never ever became significant.
The "prophecy" doesn't say they'll become the majority. It just refers to them happening - and they were happening contemporary to the writing.
What is prophesied is numbers and marks with no indication of backing as we are experiencing.
They're backed by dollars.
The prophecy, though, doesn't say anything about backing. So, no, that's not what was prophesied. That's simply your own invention.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Buzsaw, posted 01-03-2007 9:00 PM Buzsaw has not replied

DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 32 of 303 (374246)
01-03-2007 10:05 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Buzsaw
01-03-2007 9:45 PM


Re: Intrinsic Value.
Before inflation, they were metals of value which had to be mined and which even when melted had intrinsic value.
Gold only has the value that we give it. There is no intrinsic value.

Just a monkey in a long line of kings.
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Buzsaw, posted 01-03-2007 9:45 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 33 of 303 (374255)
01-03-2007 10:40 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Buzsaw
01-03-2007 9:39 PM


Re: Not Money.
I often fill my car with gas without even seeing the recipiant of the payment as do millions of others.
Did you use a mark on your head or hand?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Buzsaw, posted 01-03-2007 9:39 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by jar, posted 01-03-2007 10:43 PM crashfrog has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 34 of 303 (374256)
01-03-2007 10:43 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by crashfrog
01-03-2007 10:40 PM


Re: Not Money.
Did you use a mark on your head or hand?
The key fact is that the Mark in Revelations will be the same on everyone, and not unique to the individual. It would be pretty worthless as a way to pay for your gas.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by crashfrog, posted 01-03-2007 10:40 PM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Buzsaw, posted 01-03-2007 11:24 PM jar has replied

fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5521 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 35 of 303 (374266)
01-03-2007 11:07 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Buzsaw
01-02-2007 7:37 PM


SOON, IN A THEATER NEAR YOU, BUZ`S PREDICTIONS FOR 2007 (MAY BE?)
Buz, anybody could make up interpretations to an obscure text like this one and then clame that this was the originally intended interpretation. This kind of after the fact prophecy doesn`t impress me much.
If you want to actually convince anybody of the bible`s prophetic power why don`t you accept my chalenge and give us some predictions of what might happen in 2007 based in your interpretations of the bible`s prophecies? A year from now we could look back at them and see how they compare with reality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Buzsaw, posted 01-02-2007 7:37 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Hyroglyphx, posted 01-05-2007 9:55 PM fallacycop has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 303 (374272)
01-03-2007 11:14 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by DrJones*
01-03-2007 10:05 PM


Re: Intrinsic Value.
DrJones writes:
Gold only has the value that we give it. There is no intrinsic value.
The value we give it is it's intrinsic value.
"In numismatics, intrinsic value is the value of the metal, typically a precious metal, in a coin. For example, if gold trades at a price of USD 450 per fine troy ounce ($14/g), a coin minted from one troy ounce of fine gold would have an intrinsic value of USD 450."
Intrinsic value - Wikipedia
Another example: If you trade gold options on the commodity market, an out of the money option would have no intrinsic value whereas an in the money option would have some intrinsic value depending on how far in the money your option is to determine the intrinsic value of the gold the option would bring.
It's somewhat amusing but quite sad to see the extent Biblical skeptics will go to avoid acknowledgement of anything indicative of evidence for the existence of an intelligence beyond that of earthly humanity. Of course, I realize that for you secularists to acknowlege even one single bonafide fulfillment of prophecy would be tantamount to admitting the existence of God and the to lending credibility to his book.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by DrJones*, posted 01-03-2007 10:05 PM DrJones* has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by jar, posted 01-03-2007 11:22 PM Buzsaw has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 37 of 303 (374276)
01-03-2007 11:22 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Buzsaw
01-03-2007 11:14 PM


Re: Intrinsic Value.
It's somewhat amusing but quite sad to see the extent Biblical skeptics will go to avoid acknowledgement of anything indicative of evidence for the existence of an intelligence beyond that of earthly humanity. Of course, I realize that for you secularists to acknowlege even one single bonafide fulfillment of prophecy would be tantamount to admitting the existence of God and the to lending credibility to his book.
That might hold true for Atheists, but as a Christian I do acknowledge GOD and the Holy Bible. What I object to is misrepresenting what the Bible says and cheapening, diminishing the value of the message.
I object to people making absolute absurd use of the Bible that simply makes Christianity and Christians look stupid and THAT is what nonsense like your OP does.
It is a Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Buzsaw, posted 01-03-2007 11:14 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Buzsaw, posted 01-03-2007 11:32 PM jar has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 303 (374278)
01-03-2007 11:24 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by jar
01-03-2007 10:43 PM


Re: Not Money.
It doesn't designate nor give details regarding the mark or the number. It implies that the mark, number or name of the beast/global government must be inclusive in one's identity for monetary transactions.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by jar, posted 01-03-2007 10:43 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by jar, posted 01-03-2007 11:30 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 44 by tsig, posted 01-04-2007 2:13 AM Buzsaw has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 39 of 303 (374280)
01-03-2007 11:30 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Buzsaw
01-03-2007 11:24 PM


Re: Not Money.
It doesn't designate nor give details regarding the mark or the number. It implies that the mark, number or name of the beast/global government must be inclusive in one's identity for monetary transactions.
Here it is for all to read...
Revelation 13:16-18
16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
It is VERY specific; "for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Buzsaw, posted 01-03-2007 11:24 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Buzsaw, posted 01-04-2007 9:01 PM jar has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 40 of 303 (374281)
01-03-2007 11:32 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by jar
01-03-2007 11:22 PM


Re: Diminishment Of The Bible.
Ahem Jar. You who implicate Jesus and the apostles all as liars and imposters who claim to have healed the sick, walked on water, prophesied et al and who essentially denies most of what is written in the book are pointing the finger at me for diminishing from the book? You have no shame, man. I pity you.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by jar, posted 01-03-2007 11:22 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by jar, posted 01-03-2007 11:35 PM Buzsaw has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 41 of 303 (374283)
01-03-2007 11:35 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Buzsaw
01-03-2007 11:32 PM


Buz misrepresents folk yet again
Ahem Jar. You who implicate Jesus and the apostles all as liars and imposters who claim to have healed the sick, walked on water, prophesied et al and who essentially denies most of what is written in the book are pointing the finger at me for diminishing from the book? You have no shame, man. I pity you.
Buz, please point out where I implicate Jesus and the apostles all as liars.
If you cannot link to the post where I said that please retract your slander.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Buzsaw, posted 01-03-2007 11:32 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Buzsaw, posted 01-04-2007 8:43 PM jar has replied

Vacate
Member (Idle past 4601 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 10-01-2006


Message 42 of 303 (374294)
01-04-2007 12:37 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by Buzsaw
01-03-2007 9:45 PM


Re: Intrinsic Value.
Buzsaw writes:
Before inflation, they were metals of value which had to be mined and which even when melted had intrinsic value.
I am not an economist so I may have this incorrect; can this intrinsic value also be applied to a countries ability to produce goods and services? It seems to me that the gold backing of the dollar was essentially an arbitrary choice, it had its value based, as you say, on the fact that it must be mined. Now however the value of the dollar seems to basically break down to the countries imports/exports and its ability to produce goods/services.
I think that there is no longer a gold backing for the American dollar is really meaningless to prophecy or biblical interpretation. This is just mankinds, dare I say, evolution of economy.
As Jar pointed out, the global economy predicted in the bible is pretty clear cut about it needing 666 on the forehead or hand. The cashless society could easily be argued as already in effect, dollar for dollar I imagine that most daily transactions worldwide move more often electronically. It is unlikely however that 666 transactions are to ever come in effect.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Buzsaw, posted 01-03-2007 9:45 PM Buzsaw has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 43 of 303 (374304)
01-04-2007 2:11 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Buzsaw
01-03-2007 9:24 PM


Re: Buz comes up swinging again.
So you can't defend your use of Nahum.
Your only defence of your use of Daniel is to appeal to a usage of the English word "run" - without even knowing if that usage exists at the time Daniel was translated into English. The other points are just ignored.
And I'll get on to your attempts to defend part of your use of Revelation in a minute. However your failure to defend either of your first two examples pretty much demonstrates how feeble your case is.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Buzsaw, posted 01-03-2007 9:24 PM Buzsaw has not replied

tsig
Member (Idle past 2909 days)
Posts: 738
From: USA
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 44 of 303 (374305)
01-04-2007 2:13 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Buzsaw
01-03-2007 11:24 PM


Re:God v gold
Hi Buz
Why would god care about humans monetary system?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Buzsaw, posted 01-03-2007 11:24 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Thor
Member (Idle past 5911 days)
Posts: 148
From: Sydney, Australia
Joined: 12-20-2004


Message 45 of 303 (374306)
01-04-2007 2:15 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by jar
01-03-2007 12:07 AM


Re: Not Prophecy but rather Nonsense.
This is the kind of absolute irrelevant fantasies brought up by the End Time Crazies and should just be laughed at.
I’d say that pretty much sums it up. However, the laughter becomes a bit strained when I think about the potential for such prophecies to become self-fulfilling. Where prophecies are made and there are enough people that believe them, those people will certainly have an interest in said prophecies coming true. Therefore, it’s not unreasonable to suspect that some believers would do what they can to help things along. I don’t know how likely that really is (I hope I'm wrong!) but judging from what I’ve seen there seem to be a lot of "End time crazies" around, and they believe it all with as much certainty as I believe that tonight I will go home and eat dinner. And they don't appear to be an obscure fringe group, but seemingly average middle-class people, who can vote.
End-times prophecy foresees a major war (supposedly the one to end 'em all!) taking place in the Middle-East. It MUST occur as prophesized, in order for the believers to take their place by Christ’s side and fight the armies of Satan and all that crap. Surely it can't be TOO hard to start a war like that, can it?
Maybe all of this is stretching the boundary of the topic, but I think any discussion on the validity of prophecy ought to consider the self-fulfilment issue.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by jar, posted 01-03-2007 12:07 AM jar has not replied

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