Eye of the needle

Greetings ALL,I have updated my web page: Camel Through The Eye Of A Needle?.I am also known on this thread as one of the many "religious fruitcakes" on the web by Karl.------------------
(ALL) Praise Be To YAHWEH! "HalleluYAH(WEH)!" YAHshua said, "But I do not seek My own esteem; there is One Who seeks it, and He judges." (YAHchanan [John] 8:50)[This message has been edited by Frank4YAHWEH, 02-07-2003]

Here are two passages from the so called, "Holy Bible" that seems to indicate in itself that there are errors made by the scribes (copyist). Compare diverse translations of these passages. Note that the Authorized King James Version seems to hide the meaning of the first passage.Yeremyah (Jeremiah) 8:8-10 & 16:19------------------
(ALL) Praise Be To YAHWEH! "HalleluYAH(WEH)!" YAHshua said, "But I do not seek My own esteem; there is One Who seeks it, and He judges." (YAHchanan [John] 8:50)

What, specifically, do you feel was concealed by the KJV?------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

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There are a few places in the Bible where a prophet will say, "The word of the Lord came to me, and he said ..." But there is no place in the Bible where it says, "This Book is the Word of God."

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2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed[This message has been edited by sagg, 04-18-2003]

John,Did you even bother to compare diverse translations of the passages that I posted to that of the A.K.J.V.?What I see concealed by the A.K.J.V. tranlators is that the scribes (copyist) were in error in their copying of the previous manuscripts. Yes, I do believe wholeheartedly that the scribes (copyist) and in turn the translators are in error in their copying and translating. I believe that they did this unintentionally in some cases, but for the most part intentionally for the purpose to deceive. (See Deuteronomy 4:2 & Revelation 22:18-19.------------------
(ALL) Praise Be To YAHWEH! "HalleluYAH(WEH)!" YAHshua said, "But I do not seek My own esteem; there is One Who seeks it, and He judges." (YAHchanan [John] 8:50 & 5:30)[This message has been edited by Frank4YAHWEH, 08-03-2003]

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Did you even bother to compare diverse translations of the passages that I posted to that of the A.K.J.V.?

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Yes.What exactly do you feel has been concealed? Some detail would be nice.------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

What is being concealed is the fact that the scribes were in error. In the A.K.J.V. this is not being made clean as in comparison to other translations.Hmmm! How can I say it in any other way that you might understand what I am telling you? How much more detailed can I get? Read the A.K.J.V. of the passage in question and compare it to other translations.------------------
(ALL) Praise Be To YAHWEH! "HalleluYAH(WEH)!" YAHshua said, "But I do not seek My own esteem; there is One Who seeks it, and He judges." (YAHchanan [John] 8:50)[This message has been edited by Frank4YAHWEH, 11-25-2003][This message has been edited by Frank4YAHWEH, 11-25-2003][This message has been edited by Frank4YAHWEH, 11-25-2003]

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2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed

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Firstly, it could also just as well mean "All scripture THAT is God-breathed is available..."But even if you take it to mean your way, how do we know WHAT is scripture? At the time that sentence was written down, the NT was nothing more than a bunch of letters written by guys to churches. The Gospels weren't even written yet. The only thing considered scripture was the OT Canon. The Law and Prophets.So, years later we group together a bunch of letters including this one and the gospels, call them "Scripture" and all of a sudden this makes them God breathed? I don't think so.

DocBill started an interesting thread on the topic of scriptural inspiration. You can find it here: http://EvC Forum: Is the Bible inspired by God? -->EvC Forum: Is the Bible inspired by God?A quote from the third message of that thread: ------------------
Asgara
"An unexamined life is not worth living" Socrates via Plato

Thanks for sharing what you believe but, if you'll forgive me, so what? Vague and unsubstantiated claims get a bit tiresome after a while. Better would be specific examples with specific evidence of intent.

I often feel frustrated by the seemingly endless debates inspired by the Words of God. If you ever find yourself in a situation where you are trying to "interpret" a passage of the Bible, chances are that is because you are not pleased with the message and would like for it to say something else to suit your own desires and needs. THINK ABOUT IT!!! I'm no different because I've certainly been there. It's in our nature, just as a child's nature is to want his own way. We are no different than a child in that respect.With the topic of the "Camel passing through the needle's eye", try to open your mind and consider this. It is not impossible for a camel to pass through a needle's eye, but in order for it to happen the camel would practically have to be liquified and then poured through little by little. (HEAR ME OUT, I HAVE A PROVOCATIVE POINT)I believe that the camel is a metaphor for a wealthy person. In the desert-like climate in which this parable was told, the camel can store an abundance of water for itself and therefore can easily survive as a large, important creature of its environment. This would qualify the camel as "wealthy". If a camel was to pass through the needle's eye it would need to be destroyed first, losing all that water and all that stamina that it had obtained, just as a wealthy person would have to be willing to lose his wealth before he could be welcome in God's Kingdom.And in the end, it would be much easier to destroy a camel and painstakingly pass it through the eye of a needle than it would be for a man to willingly give up his own wealth for the promise of everlasting life; and much easier still for that wealthy man to manipulate this parable's meaning to serve of the purpose of that wealthy man not being expected to have a willingness to give up his earthly fortune for the sake of a heavenly one.[This message has been edited by sharingbrie, 01-08-2004]

Actually, Jesus Christ did not say it is impossible for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, He said grarelyh shall a rich man enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. The translation of Jesus Christ proclaiming that it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, which is a small gate/doorway is therefore more likely than to translate Him as giving an analogy of a rope and an actual needle, which implies that it is impossible for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus Christ was not teaching the theology that it is impossible for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, but that it is rare.Sincerely,
TRUTH, Jonathan

Metatron, let me say that your quotes and inverted linguistic depiction is pseudo-scholarly flotsome and this is a compliment to you, believe me.First, the passage from Matthew's Gospel was not an "ancient Christian saying", it was coined and stated first and only by Jesus Bar Joseph, i.e. Christ. The saying has never been discovered prior to His recorded historical statement.Second, the Greek nominative "kamelos" in it's Nominative, Masculine, Singular form is the Greek transliterated form for "camel".Third, Christians "stole it", from whom, Christ?Last, linguistically, if Christ spoke Aramaic (and He Likely did in this passage as he was speaking of the Jewish elite), he would have used the Amamaic/Syriac word "gamela" which may mean in this context both "camel" or "rope". Given the sharp rhetoric of Christ and His wit to confound the haughty and arrogant, He likely meant both. I will leave you to figure out the reason and rest of it...if you can. You libs are so poorly educated and so quick to judge concerning what you do not understand. The basis for all the sciences emerged from a Reformation and Rennaissance brought to you by Christians...but you fully intend to go your own way...even to the end denying what Christians have done for you in scholastic, scholarly, and scientific matters.

Do you have a reference for this? I can't find anything online to confirm it.

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he would have used the Amamaic/Syriac word "gamela" which may mean in this context both "camel" or "rope".

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Do you have a reference for this? I can't find anything online to confirm it.

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I believe it is based on a translation of the Peshitta by Lamsa. The word 'gamla' is supposed to mean both 'camel' and 'rope' according to Lamsa. This link originated from the fact that rope was made of camelhair.This is how Lamsa translates Matthew 19:24: http://www.aramaicpeshitta.com/.../dr_george_lamsa_bible.htm