Who is Jesus Christ to you?

Correction Arabs are descended from Jacob.

Correction to my own correciton. Arabs are descended from Ishmael.

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If one asked would Jesus have ever said he was anything but a Jew?

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I'm thinking he would have said something like "I am the son of my father" and then would have strolled away feeling very mysterious.He almost certainly would have been Jewish by descent, at least through Mary, and that would have made him officially Jewish by Jewish law. But it doesn't really follow that the religion he founded automatically, therefore, is a Jewish sect. A sect, by pretty common definition, is a branch group seperated from related groups and/or a larger umbrella group, by relatively minor doctrinal differences. Christianity tends to call its sects 'denominations' -- Methodist vs. Lutheran, or Catholic vs. Protestant. Jesus, or at least the authors of the NT, quite enthusiastically gutted Judaism-- all the while calling it 'fulfilling prophecy' of course. As I see it, there is a point at which one can no longer consider a sect to be a branch of its parent religion or a branch of the native religion of its founder.------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

Ok, that makes sense. It's a bit like speciation. You have to judge when there is enough difference to say it has occured.

I'd say he was a smart guy who had some good (if unwelcome at the time) ideas about morality etc who was seized upon and reinvented to suit their own purpose by a bunch of fanatical, malcontent, religious loonies......

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Correction to my own correciton. Arabs are descended from Ishmael.

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I'm actually annoyingly good at this for an atheist aren't I?[This message has been edited by joz, 04-16-2003]

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It may well do, but I dont understand a word of it!

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LOL.... welcome to Brad.Believe it or not, if you swim through the jargon and wierd syntax -- gives me a headache but sometimes I try anyway-- Brad can come up with some interesting points.------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

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Brad can come up with some interesting points.

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He can?!! I gave up trying to read his posts. Can you translate when you think he has something interesting?Thanks in advance.

Who is Jesus Christ according to the Bible, not our opinion?

Who is Jesus Christ according to the Bible, not our opinion?A JEW! lol...

According to the Bible, he is the son of God and our savior.Ofcourse, most people don't find the Bible very convincing in this regard.------------------
He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife.
- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy

It is quite clear who Jesus was according to the Bible:A false prophet:Matthew 24:11 'Many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.'Jesus fits this description perfectly, even 2000 years later people are still being deceived.Matthew 7:15 'Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.'Jesus again, the lamb of God, comes as a meek sheepish person, but underneath is the mind of a madman (as demonstrated at the temple cleansing)Matthew 24:24 'For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were possible.'Jesus again. This states that even false Christs and false Prophets can perform signs and miracles. So Jesus' 'miracles' do not make him unique and his false prophecies prove he was a fake.

I think its important to agree here that there is no definite answer; that whether or not Jesus is the son of God has no definite factual answer.It is said above that most people don't believe the Bible... yet, over the last 2000 years, it has been one of the largest and fastest growing religions on earth. Many, many people who are far superior in knowledge, science, philosophy, etc. than anyone here have accepted the Bible as truth, and Jesus as their savior. As well, many have not. There is no intellectual solution to this query. Those who try to solve it like a mathematical problem, are doomed to fail - for it is a question of faith and destiny.As a Christian, I'm aware that my view of Jesus as God may be incorrect. I have faith that He is the savior, but I acknowledge I might be wrong. If I'm wrong, however, and there is no God - I will not have suffered because of my belief. By wordly standards, I'll have lived a moral life. The values taught in the Bible which I try to adhere to, have kept me from a great deal of pain many experience in this world - and provided me a multitude of blessings. I don't live, as most people do, for the treasures of this world - which are fleeting and unfulfilling. The stakes are much higher, however, for the person who professes there is no God - if they turn out to be wrong. For then, they have to give account for their actions, and face an eternity of torture and pain that we have no comprehension of.Jesus was one of three things: Liar, Lunatic, or Lord. However, we know from extra-biblical sources that all of the 12 diciples except John died extremely painful deaths for their beliefs. Many had to watch their families killed before them first. Yet, none of them took back their testimonies or changed their convictions. I, as a Christian, don't know if I could do that today. It would be very tempting to temporarily deny my beliefs in order to spare my wife's life. Perhaps I'm simply to young in my faith. Would the disciples go through so much for a Liar, a Lunatic, or there Lord?The Jewish faith also believes in a saving Messiah. In Jesus' time, most Jews didn't accept Him as their savior because they were expecting a military leader who would topple the Roman Empire. Most Jews today, howver, seem to have lost touch with their faith - and are only Jews by their cultural identity. I don't know of any Jews who sacrifice animals for their sin, or keep other such laws, in today's world. In fact, many Jews no longer believe in God - or at least in the God of their ancestors, and seem to have given up hope that a Messiah is coming.If he were to come today, however, would they still expect a military leader? Who would they be freed from? Today, Israel is the most powerful nation in the Middle East. And in fact, it was Jesus who toppled the Roman Empire in the 4th century when Constantine converted to Christianity. Perhaps the Jews missed the messiah?But of course, all of this is meaningless. No one can be persuaded by words alone, and no one can be 100% sure of what awaits us, or if there is a God. You cannot make an intellectual decision on this matter. You cannot use your arrogance to convince yourself you are the one person who has it all figured out. You have to be willing to say, I could be wrong, and they could be right. The Bible tells us, eventually, every knee will bow before God and confess that He is Lord? If you do not beieve this, and turn out to be wrong, are you ready to here what He will say after you bow and confess He is Lord? For some, it will be, "Well done, good and faithful servant." For others, it will be, "I never knew you."One more set of thoughts. Jesus ministry lasted only three years. Can you think of anyone else who has so greatly impacted our world in only three years? That is an amazing return on investment. I could work my whole life to make an impact on this world and not reach one person. Would his impact be so great, for such a little amount of investment, for no reason? Also, when examining this area, let us look at who Jesus says he is. He says He and His father are one: that He is God. Mohammed, Confuscious, Buddha, etc. never claimed to be God - only messengers of God. Jesus defeated death, and is alive today. The founders of other religions died, and remain dead. So... I think Jesus makes some unique claims about himself and his authority, and to me, I believe his is the Savior, and that I will spend eternity with him in Paradise. But that's just me, you have to decide for yourself...-Sagg

The point for the evolutionist, progressive creationist or theistic evolutionist is that I HAVE NOT as of yet shown categorically that Richard Lewontin's involution of devolved evolution IS NOT a couple differential equation AMONG organisms and environments and it seems that until I do just this I will still be out a job, but that does not mean that Job and me do not have points.If anything you have seen me type is correct it will most likley mostly if not only go to show that Olby's concept of Mendel and that Mendel WAS NOT a "mendelian" is true and that both the excess evolutionary theorizing in genetics as well as the failure to genetically realize Mendel's combined developmental and hybrid series math was in error and my guess the reason that deductive biogeography does not exist in the call of the wild Croizat no matter the relation of Panbiogeography and Catholicism.The conceptual advance I am trying to marshall was already put in writing when I was a student at Cornell and attempts to extend Cantor's notion of "abstraction" into terms of molecular embryology but that goal does not guarentee a priori that I will be able to establish a biological research program in antithesis to the reasons that Harvard hired Lewontin or specifically specify how to obtain the cardinality when not the ordinality of the differential equations LIKELY to be invloved.I have understood the Pope to have asked if the current math of biology does indeed "run counter" to the physics and chemistry of the same and for ANYTHING i write to be clearer and clear I will need to USE Betrand Russel's seperation of cardinals and ordinals perhaps with Wolfram's work on a new kind of science in topobiologies' assertion of evolution and not development in the developmental Olby Mendel binomial transfinitely WITHOUT the philosophy of Liebniz that Cantor resorted to in explication against claim of pantheism.It is clear to me that Phillp Johnson IS correct about a change occurring which I had rejected previously but I came to this knoweldge not from Biblical Creationism but from reading and thinking of any physical means by which organisms can chage FORMS. Tansfinites are about a math dependent on the forms of things and I have not looked at the use of logic to have MATHMATICAL STRUctures that add ordertypes cardinals and ordinals into arthemetic that would have to be operative during meosis coherently but I KNOW that Simon Levin who is more postive than WIll Provine about all use of math in biology was unwilling to do this with me BECAUSE IT WAS TOO philosophical and yet the philsophy of Richard Boyd was not realisitically up to this task without his functionary attacking my very person when it was the inheritance I was after.

I could go on forever about who Jesus is to me, but here are some of the things Jesus is to me.Jesus is "the way the truth and the life", "the authour and perfector of our faith", "the authour of life", "Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace", "Jesus is Lord", "Faithful and true", "King of Kings and Lord of Lords", "our great high priest at the right hand of God".Jesus is my saviour, my king, my friend and my brother. He is the reason I can come boldly before the throne of grace.------------------
Saved by an incredible Grace.