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Author Topic:   Starlight Within a Young Universe
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 765 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 24 of 57 (366866)
11-29-2006 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Confidence
11-29-2006 10:58 AM


you will need a HUGE reservoir for all these comets. They should have been observed by now.
The Kuiper Belt is that HUGE reservoir for short-period comets, and it's been observed to the tune of about a thousand objects. All the objects observed so far are maybe 100km or larger in diameter - they're COAL BLACK and about four billion kilometers away, so that even the 2000km diameter ones take astoundlingly sensitive equipment to find 'em. The size distribution of the ones we have found is similar to the size distribution of the thousand main-belt asteroids that were known by 1920 or so: a few big, more medium, lots of smallish.
In the last twenty years - during which all the Kuiper Belt objects were discovered - another 100,000 or so main-belt asteroids have been found. They have a size distribution, too: oodles of tiny ones and scads and bunches of itsy-bitsy ones. The size distribution follows the equation that describes the first thousand. The Itsy-Bitsys are as faint as the Smallish KBO's.
This means that we can't see the small objects in the Kuiper Belt with current technology - they're too dim. It means that we can make the reasonable inference that there are Smalls, Littles, Tinies, and Itsy-Bitsies out there, because there's nothing to keep the known KBO size distribution from continuing to those sizes. And this is borne out by our seeing stray Tinys and such that we refer to as short-period comets.
We have yet to see our first Oort Cloud object - they're fifty times as far away as Kuipers. But we see long-period comets from there.

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 765 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 26 of 57 (366901)
11-29-2006 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Confidence
11-29-2006 4:29 PM


Re: helium/neutrinos/protons
And observed quantized redshifts seem to support this.
But there are no "quantized" redshifts - that was an artefact of small sample size. I'll get you the reference when I get home this evening.

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Replies to this message:
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 765 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 28 of 57 (366990)
11-29-2006 9:36 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Coragyps
11-29-2006 4:35 PM


Re: helium/neutrinos/protons
Linky: http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/astro-ph/pdf/0208/0208117.pdf
The abstract:
We have used the publicly available data from the 2dF Galaxy Redshift Survey and the 2dF QSO Redshift Survey to test the hypothesis that there is a periodicity in the redshift distribution of quasi-stellar objects (QSOs) found projected close to foreground galaxies. These data provide by far the largest and most homogeneous sample for such a study, yielding 1647 QSO-galaxy pairs. There is no evidence for a periodicity at the predicted frequency in log(1+z), or at any other frequency.

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 Message 26 by Coragyps, posted 11-29-2006 4:35 PM Coragyps has not replied

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 765 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 29 of 57 (366993)
11-29-2006 9:42 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Confidence
11-29-2006 4:35 PM


but he does say that the diameter of all the matter of the universe at the beginning, originally water, was about 2 light years across.
Does he have a mechanism that converts all that oxygen in his water to hydrogen and helium? Does he have any reason beyond a couple of Bible verses for the astonishing ad hoccery of having water there at all?

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 765 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 38 of 57 (367314)
12-01-2006 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Confidence
12-01-2006 3:15 PM


How thick is this wall? What's its total mass?
I'll bet that if it's over two molecules thick it'll outweigh the rest of the universe combined. And it won't be a real strong wall, either.

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 765 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 41 of 57 (367322)
12-01-2006 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Hyroglyphx
12-01-2006 3:56 PM


Re: Look at you guys having all this fun without me
It is all dependent on where the earth is in its rotation and orbit.
And that's exactly what is used as the baseline in annual parallax measurements! We know pretty dang precisely where the earth is in its orbit every day and minute of the year - heck, Bessel knew pretty closely back in 1838 when he measured one of the first parallaxes. And two angles are enough to define any triangle, as all triangles' internal angles sum to 180 degrees. The few thousands of stars that have had parallaxes measured really are up to hundreds of light-years away.
There's a galaxy called Messier (mess-ee-ay, for a Frenchman who cataloged it) 106 that's had it's distance measured as 25,000,000 light years by a differenr geometric method: it has a disk of hot matter rotating near its core. The disk has "knots" of radio emission that can be tracked with great accuracy over years of radiotelescope observation. The speed of rotation of the disk can also be measured by the redshift on the side receding from us and the blueshift on the side approaching - just like the traffic cop measures your speed. The margin of error of the measurement overall is +/- 4%, or a million light years.
We also know that stars are far away just from their brightness: nobody seems to think that the taillights of that receding semi get dim because the truck turns into a Tonka toy when it gets a quarter-mile away from you.
if we know that it is at least possible to slow or speed up light more or less than its constant
Slow, yes. Speed up, no.

This message is a reply to:
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 765 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 42 of 57 (367324)
12-01-2006 4:29 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Confidence
12-01-2006 4:14 PM


because a diamond has remarkably powerful lattice bonds, so there is no way that subsequent biological contamination can be expected to find its way into the interior...
Indeed. But neutrons can get into that lattice as if it were vacuum, and make carbon-14 out of carbon-13 (present at 1.1% in earth-bound carbon) or nitrogen-14 (present in variable amounts in most diamonds.) And it takes only a smidgen of 14C to get the "ages" AiG reports. Note that they didn't report nitrogen content or provenance (with respect to possible neutron sources like uranium ore) of any of their coals or diamonds.

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 765 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 44 of 57 (367330)
12-01-2006 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Hyroglyphx
12-01-2006 4:39 PM


Re: Look at you guys having all this fun without me
Which "understanding," Nem? The triangulation part is precisely the same thing surveyors use on land, and was known to the ancient Greeks. The size and shape of the Earth's orbit has been very well known since 1800 or before, and is known to a gnat's whisker here in the Space Age.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 765 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 55 of 57 (483472)
09-22-2008 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by mikebForJesus
09-22-2008 2:42 PM


Re: more like stardust from pixies ...
Hello, MikeB, and welcome to EvC!!
There's a more recent article with quite a few literature references here:
RATE's Radiocarbon - Intrinsic or Contamination?
I'm sure RAZD will be along shortly, too.
I very much doubt that you would see similar effects with the other common radiodating methods for a couple of reasons. First, the other isotopes used have half-lives on the order of the age of the Earth, so you wouldn't see the parent isotope ever getting to such low levels that contamination would bias results. Second, most other methods measure daughters, not parents. And thirdly, I'm not aware of any means to "replenish" isotopes like potassium-40 or rhenium-187 in the ground - only in supernovae.
Edited by Coragyps, : add paragraph

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