"Word of God" - What is it?

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I just typed out what I believed to be a great response to you. And in the process of digging up references, lost the whole thing.

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I hate when that happens. If I'm doing a long piece or taking time for references, I type it in Word and then copy it over.I know the proof texts for Jesus being the fulfillment of the law. So what you are presenting in relation to how the phrase is used, leans towards the phrase referring to the law (Torah, first five books), since Jesus is the fulfillment of the law.But looking at the usage in Mark and Matthew, how can they invalidate a law. I don't see that breaking a law invalidates a law, but breaking a covenant does invalidate the covenant.The author of Hebrews seems to be referring to the Torah with the phrase "word of God".

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

Good idea! Yes. But the writer of Hebrews is really making the same case that I am... That jesus is the fulfilment of the word. And He is explaining to the Hebrew Christians in particular, the many connections btween prophesy and Jesus.Hebrews 1: 1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs. 5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father"? Or again, "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son"? 6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him." 7 In speaking of the angels he says, "He makes his angels winds, his servants flames of fire." 8 But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy."Revelation 1:13 ...and among the lampstands was someone "like a son of man," dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. 14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. 15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. 16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and out of his mouth came a sharp double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance. 17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.--------------------------------------------------------------------- I am not sure why you quoted this passage. To me it is remarkable, in that it speaks to a falsehood in some sense. In one way, in one way, I believe it to be a disticntly Christian confession of my inability to be righteous. A reminder that my righteousness is only through Christ who is righteousness. It is also an encouragement to step out in faith. In failing to live rightly (first by making the attempt) we learn more about our own depravity and reliance upon God's mercy. The fact that the conduct of others is more mature and legitimately pure, is to be an encouragement to those of us who are struggling to live up to the holy standards of God.I think that the more a person lives the word of God, the more effectively he can preach it, and the more effectively it will be heard. In the case of Jesus, the Word is completely embodied. That is why his life had such a dramatic effect on the purely material minds of the world. Men wonder, 'how is it possible to live that way'? It seems totally alien and unnatural to so many. And it is! It can only be accomplished by total submission to God's word.I think it goes back to the 'word of God' being somethng 'you can take to the bank'. It is presented by the prophets as explaining or simply reflecting 'reality'. If that is true, then we do not live in reality. Hence the ressurection and the next life, making this life a dress rehersal for the testing of souls.In my opinion, that is the Bible (the word of God). The message of God's own right arm being our only means of support in an existence where anything is possible, but where omnipotent power is needed to forsee the consequences of actions and the ultimate outcome of ideas.

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Yes. But the writer of Hebrews is really making the same case that I am... That jesus is the fulfilment of the word. And He is explaining to the Hebrew Christians in particular, the many connections btween prophesy and Jesus.

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I understand, but we are putting the lessons aside for now to concentrate on what the actual phrase is referring to. So you agree that in Hebrews 4:12 that the phrase "word of God" is referring to the Torah?In Hebrews 1:3 (... by the word of His power. ...) the author is using "rhema" for word. It is a different usage than what we are investigating. "rhema" seems to be actual spoken words.

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I am not sure why you quoted this passage.

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Because it contains the phrase we are investigating. So is the author referring to the promise or to the Torah? It seems to be referring to the Torah.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

In the Torah, the "word of the Lord" seems to refer to words directly from God (recorded by Moses, according to tradition). For example:

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Exo 9:20 He that feared the word of the LORD among the servants of Pharaoh made his servants and his cattle flee into the houses:
Exo 9:21 And he that regarded not the word of the LORD left his servants and his cattle in the field.

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Num 3:16 And Moses numbered them according to the word of the LORD, as he was commanded.

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Num 15:30 But the soul that doeth aught presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Num 15:31 Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.

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Usually, the "word of the Lord" was a command, but sometimes it was more like a prediction:

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Deu 34:5 So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD.

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Later on, it seems that there was less direct communication from God:

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1Sa 3:1 And the child Samuel ministered unto the LORD before Eli. And the word of the LORD was precious in those days; there was no open vision.

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Communication from God was regarded as an ongoing process:

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1Sa 3:7 Now Samuel did not yet know the LORD, neither was the word of the LORD yet revealed unto him.

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Sometimes there could be an angelic as well as a human go-between:

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1Ki 13:18 He said unto him, I am a prophet also as thou art; and an angel spoke unto me by the word of the LORD, saying, Bring him back with thee into thine house, that he may eat bread and drink water. But he lied unto him.

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The "word of the Lord" may be authenticated by real-world events:

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1Ki 17:23 And Elijah took the child, and brought him down out of the chamber into the house, and delivered him unto his mother: and Elijah said, See, thy son liveth.
1Ki 17:24 And the woman said to Elijah, Now by this I know that thou art a man of God, and that the word of the LORD in thy mouth is truth.

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Consultation may be involved:

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2Ch 18:4 And Jehoshaphat said unto the king of Israel, Inquire, I pray thee, at the word of the LORD today.
2Ch 18:5 Therefore the king of Israel gathered together of prophets four hundred men, and said unto them, Shall we go to Ramoth-gilead to battle, or shall I forbear? And they said, Go up; for God will deliver it into the king's hand.

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2Ch 34:21 Go, inquire of the LORD for me, and for them that are left in Israel and in Judah, concerning the words of the book that is found: for great is the wrath of the LORD that is poured out upon us, because our fathers have not kept the word of the LORD, to do after all that is written in this book.

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(I'll leave off at the major prophets, 'cause there's a whole lotta word-of-the-Lord goin' on there.)In summary, it seems that the "word of the Lord" in the Tanakh refers to an ongoing, direct communication with God, usually through an "annointed" intermediary. That could include the "scriptures" that record the communication, but it seems to refer more properly to the content of the communication.

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I personally think it is both. The Torah is the promise, the Christ is it's fulfillment. Both are the word. The New Testament did not do away with the Torah. If anything, the new testament is a stronger testament (as indicated in Hebrews) because the promise has been proven. It is no longer simply promise, but revealed reality to me.And if Jesus is the Christ, then the words of his mouth are the words of God.Am I answering your question?

“You recall that one and the same Word of God extends throughout Scripture, that it is one and the same Utterance that resounds in the mouths of all the sacred writers, since he who was in the beginning God with God has no need of separate syllables; for he is not subject to time.”- Augustine of Hippo, 5th centuryLooks like this may answer the question of the early usages.

I still think this could refer to 'promise' because the total promise of God is conditional; i.e., it depends on our following of His commandments. To speak of 'the promise of God' in general, calls to the minds of the people the rules, commands, or Torah necessary to attaining its fulfillment. It is a remembrance of the conduct and faith required by the 'promise'.

Hebrew 13:7 could go either way, and I agree the at that later date the Torah, laws, promise all seemed to flow together.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

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In summary, it seems that the "word of the Lord" in the Tanakh refers to an ongoing, direct communication with God, usually through an "annointed" intermediary. That could include the "scriptures" that record the communication, but it seems to refer more properly to the content of the communication.

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I agree. The Torah (five books of Moses) wasn't a unit obviously when they were being written and I think Samual was supposedly written before Deuteronomy.We forget how much phrases can change their meaning over time.The NT authors seem to use the phrase as referring to what God has said, the Torah, and possibly the promise. Hard to know what was going through their minds or the slang of the time.Hard to wear 2000 year old shoes.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

I agree as well. Talking about the Bible as the 'Word of God' can be too misleading for a work that was not a final unit until the 4th century and is still 'under construction', and in light of the fact that much of the Hebrew teachings were orally communicated. This all helps so much in forgiving inaccuracies and discrepencies found within the actual texts, and for way-laying those who might point to these inaccuracies as 'proof' that God had no part in them.