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Author Topic:   Who would have thunk S. Africa beat us to it? (Gay marriage)
Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 1 of 8 (363754)
11-14-2006 12:51 PM


CNN article
quote:
South Africa bill would legalize same-sex marriage
POSTED: 10:54 a.m. EST, November 14, 2006
Adjust font size:
CAPE TOWN, South Africa (AP) -- The South African parliament passed legislation recognizing same-sex marriages Tuesday in an unprecedented move on a continent where homosexuality is taboo.
African National Congress veterans heralded the Civil Union bill for extending basic freedoms to everyone and equated it with liberation from the shackles of apartheid.
...........
"When we attained our democracy, we sought to distinguish ourselves from an unjust painful past, by declaring that never again shall it be that any South African will be discriminated against on the basis of color, creed culture and sex," Home Affairs Minister Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula told the National Assembly.
But a Christian lawmaker, Kenneth Meshoe, said it was the "saddest day in our 12 years of democracy" and warned that South Africa "was provoking God's anger."
............
The Roman Catholic church and many traditional leaders objected to the use of "marriage" saying this denigrated the sanctity of traditional marriages.
In an effort to ease some of these concerns, the drafters of the bill allowed both religious and civil officers to refuse to marry same-sex couples.
I still don't get whatever the hell happened to seperation of church and state in our country?
Anyway, I never thought S. Africa would have us beat in human rights issues. Perhaps there weren't enough injustice and human suffering in our past?

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Replies to this message:
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 Message 3 by Chiroptera, posted 11-14-2006 1:34 PM Taz has not replied
 Message 4 by ringo, posted 11-14-2006 1:45 PM Taz has not replied
 Message 5 by U can call me Cookie, posted 11-15-2006 10:07 AM Taz has not replied
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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 2 of 8 (363768)
11-14-2006 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
11-14-2006 12:51 PM


there was enough, but our dear wasps still don't care.

This message is a reply to:
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Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 8 (363769)
11-14-2006 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
11-14-2006 12:51 PM


quote:
Perhaps there weren't enough injustice and human suffering in our past?
I bet Harriet Tubman and Chief Joseph would disagree with this.

Kings were put to death long before 21 January 1793. But regicides of earlier times and their followers were interested in attacking the person, not the principle, of the king. They wanted another king, and that was all. It never occurred to them that the throne could remain empty forever. -- Albert Camus

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ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 4 of 8 (363776)
11-14-2006 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
11-14-2006 12:51 PM


gasby writes:
Perhaps there weren't enough injustice and human suffering in our past?
When minorities suffer, it's "an unfortunate chapter in our history".
The majority has to suffer to make it worthwhile doing something about it.

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Replies to this message:
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U can call me Cookie
Member (Idle past 4953 days)
Posts: 228
From: jo'burg, RSA
Joined: 11-15-2005


Message 5 of 8 (363891)
11-15-2006 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
11-14-2006 12:51 PM


Hmmmm.....
Careful now, Gasby...
One might think that you consider my country backward...
Anyways, i'm quite proud of my country for this step its taken.
Unfortunately, at grassroots level, there is still tremendous discrimination against homosexuals.
Its very difficult, getting people to alter their beliefs; but times, they are achanging.

"The good Christian should beware the mathematician and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of hell." - St. Augustine

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 6 of 8 (363894)
11-15-2006 10:17 AM


Blog about South Afrrica
From http://time.blogs.com/daily_dish/
quote:
I'm glad to see you mention that South Africa has today legalized gay marriage. This is truly a great thing. Not to belittle this great civil rights achievement, I do worry though that this is relatively meaningless in the greater context of everyday South African life.
What does it help gaining a civil right such as this, if at the same time one of the the most basic human rights, the right to life itself, is daily violated in a very large scale here in South Africa. We are suffering from a wave of lawlessness and violent criminality in this country, second only to places like Columbia. South Africa has one of the highest murder, rape and other violent crime rates in the world (that is probably if you discount places like Iraq at the moment).
Yes, legalizing marriage rights for all is progressive and the right thing to do, but I wish there is more international outcry (as was the case during the apartheid years) about the atrocities that happen here on a daily basis. How ironic that we have one of the most progressive constitutions in the world, yet at the same time our deputy president, Jacob Zuma, stands on a public forum (during his rape trial) and proudly states that it is ok to have unprotected sex with an HIV positive person (a family member who he allegedly raped) as long as you shower afterwards.

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 7 of 8 (363896)
11-15-2006 10:19 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by ringo
11-14-2006 1:45 PM


Ringo writes:
When minorities suffer, it's "an unfortunate chapter in our history".
The majority has to suffer to make it worthwhile doing something about it.
Thats one reason Christians (or self pronounced Christians) get so little respect these days...they judge others, many of them undergo little suffering, and they are almost a majority. As a legal issue, I think that gay marriage is a basic human rights issue. As a moral issue, I leave each individual alone...for I am no judge. Morality should be seperate from state policies and politics simply because none of us are in a position to judge anyone else.

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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 8 (363946)
11-15-2006 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
11-14-2006 12:51 PM


Separation of church and state
I still don't get whatever the hell happened to seperation of church and state in our country?
It still exists today. The government can't impose or endorse any particular religion nor can it prohibit the free exercise thereof. If you were expecting it to mean more than that, it doesn't.

Faith is not a pathetic sentiment, but robust, vigorous confidence built on the fact that God is holy love. You cannot see Him just now, you cannot fully understand what He's doing, but you know that you know Him." -Oswald Chambers

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