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Author Topic:   Please explain Cut and Run criteria in light of Afghanistan
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5850 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 187 of 191 (359596)
10-29-2006 5:51 AM
Reply to: Message 177 by Tal
10-27-2006 8:44 PM


Re: Reply to OP
The NATO commander now reports to SACEUR (Supreme Allied Commander Europe) who will always be a US 4 star officer (either General or Admiral). That person reports to SECDEF. So instead of reporting to the CENTCOM 4 star, the new CG reports a different 4 star, but its still a US officer. Unity of command is intact.
Let me start by saying I may very well have been mistaken regarding the degree of control of US troops by foreign commanders. The above kind of information is useful and I'd be interested in seeing more of it (especially where it can be documented).
However, this does not seem to be wholly accurate regarding what I was discussing, nor answer all points I brought up.
As far as I understand it, ISAF involves tactical operational command. I find I was incorrect that it will always be run by foeign commanders (a direct admission of error on that score) but it is currently run by non US commanders and will be again after the next commander (who will be US) gives up his role within 6 months. Doesn't that mean that our troops (regardless of theoretical connection to higher comman structures) are run in a very practical sense by foreign commands?
And if what you say is true, it raises the question of why reps have been so negative about NATO, or other allied oversight of past conflicts. In every case it was argued that such a thing would result in US troops, not to mention missions, being run by nonUS elements, which is not conservative military policy.
I'm not understanding how that could have been argued in the past, if what you say is true... unless of course the error I thought I was discussing was not the one I should have been discussing.

holmes {in temp decloak from lurker mode}
"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." (D.Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by Tal, posted 10-27-2006 8:44 PM Tal has not replied

  
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5850 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 188 of 191 (359599)
10-29-2006 6:21 AM
Reply to: Message 183 by Hyroglyphx
10-28-2006 12:51 PM


Re: Reply to OP
As I've unequivocally proven, both high level Dems and Reps were all for the ousting of Hussein who routinely ignored UN sanctions and policies.
1) You haven't proven what you claimed. While I am certain some dems were for removing Hussein, not all dems felt that way, and many quotes used to suggest certain dems were for the war are simple quote mines.
2) Assuming you made your case, I don't know what that is supposed to mean for me or anything I have said. So alot of people on both sides of the aisle were in error. I am neither a dem nor republican. Anyone making the argument for war was in error.
3) Lots of nations ignore UN sanctions and policies. The question is whether they pose a threat. The Bush administration had at its beginning stated how nonthreatening Iraq was, due to its degraded military status. Nothing changed regarding that fact, not even 9/11 could have changed that.
Maybe the NSA and CIA need to step up and take some flack for their handling of evidence.
I agree, however the Department of State's intelligence org was also part of research and their estimates were right on. So were international intelligence estimates. Their arguments were overrun by the CIA. I would note however that the CIA did NOT argue for and invasion of Iraq, and had suggested openly that that was more likely to trigger his use of, or the spread of WMD material, than not invading.
As a final note on this point, Bush awarded Tenet for his failures with this nation's highest award. Its sort of hard to step up to the plate and admit errors, when none are allowed to exist by presidential commendation.
I can't help but point out the irony. Certain individuals claim that Iraq has nothing to do with Al Qaeda but Afghanistan does. Afghanistan is a fairly stable country.
You seem to have missed the real irony here. Until we invaded Iraq, it was a stable nation and had nothing to do with AQ, and so would not have been a concern on that point. All we'd have to be worrying about is Afghanistan (and AQ elements anywhere BUT Iraq).
Yes, at this point Iraq has something to do with AQ, but only because we totally screwed up and invaded the nation. But it didn't have to be that way.
They say he plays both sides. I don't know. I know that he's caught numerous Taliban and AQ officials, moreso than any other Muslim nation, bar none.
Musharaf helped the Taliban grow to power in Afghanistan and I believe was the only world leader to acknowledge their status as gov't of Afghanistan. His rounding them up now gives no indication of where his ultimate loyalties or capabilities lie.
I might also add that he did not punish a pakistani national caught proliferating the exact WMD tech whose POTENTIAL for leakage the US said was grounds for invading Iraq.
Musharaf is not the only one who is playing both sides of something.
Edited by holmes, : not to note

holmes {in temp decloak from lurker mode}
"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." (D.Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-28-2006 12:51 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
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