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Author Topic:   What would your doctor say?
inkorrekt
Member (Idle past 6081 days)
Posts: 382
From: Westminster,CO, USA
Joined: 02-04-2006


Message 196 of 204 (353321)
09-30-2006 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by nator
08-03-2006 6:10 PM


Re: touchy
1) Who is a christian? Is it some one who reads the Bible? Or is it someone who goes to church? If this is how a person is defiend as a christian, then the closeness of the numbers is self explanatory. A dog sitting in a garage does not become a car.
2) Christians are also human beings. They have the same weaknesses like anyone else. Christians are not perfect. So, not all of them, but some of them will commit crimes and go to prison.Yet the numbers do not match.
3) Who makes these polls? For example, in a local newspaper, there was afull page article on the polling of the attitudes of US citizens towards illegal immigrants. The poll showed that 85% of US citizens want the illegal immigrants to be granted citizenship. However, I am yet to find out people (US citizens) in favor of illegal immigration. What the newspaper did was to poll illegal immigrants only. Who is polling? Who are being polled? What are the questions? All these factors determine the outcome of any poll. On this basis, I would state that the polling of christian prisoners and non christian prisoners and general population is flawed.After all Statistics can be used to prove as well as disprove anything and polling is a simple statistical tool.
Edited by inkorrekt, : important explanation was missing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by nator, posted 08-03-2006 6:10 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 197 by nator, posted 10-02-2006 10:11 AM inkorrekt has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 197 of 204 (353589)
10-02-2006 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 196 by inkorrekt
09-30-2006 6:18 PM


Re: touchy
quote:
1) Who is a christian? Is it some one who reads the Bible? Or is it someone who goes to church? If this is how a person is defiend as a christian, then the closeness of the numbers is self explanatory. A dog sitting in a garage does not become a car.
A Christian is someone who calles themselves a Christian, as far as I'm concerned.
quote:
2) Christians are also human beings. They have the same weaknesses like anyone else. Christians are not perfect. So, not all of them, but some of them will commit crimes and go to prison.Yet the numbers do not match.
Which numbers do not match?
quote:
3) Who makes these polls?
Social scientists did the ones I referenced, IIRC.
quote:
For example, in a local newspaper, there was afull page article on the polling of the attitudes of US citizens towards illegal immigrants. The poll showed that 85% of US citizens want the illegal immigrants to be granted citizenship. However, I am yet to find out people (US citizens) in favor of illegal immigration. What the newspaper did was to poll illegal immigrants only. Who is polling? Who are being polled? What are the questions? All these factors determine the outcome of any poll.
I agree. However, asking someone's opinion about immigration is a bit different than asking about personal religious affiliation.
The former is much more likely to change than the latter.
quote:
On this basis, I would state that the polling of christian prisoners and non christian prisoners and general population is flawed.After all Statistics can be used to prove as well as disprove anything and polling is a simple statistical tool.
Not all polling is flawed, and not all statistical analysis is untrustworthy.
After all, stistical analysis is ubiquitous in all scientific work and if it was so flimsy and easily corrupted then the science-based technology that our western lives are so dependent upon wouldn't be so reliable.

"Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends! Well I say there are some things we don't want to know! Important things!"
- Ned Flanders
"Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." - Thomas Jefferson

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by inkorrekt, posted 09-30-2006 6:18 PM inkorrekt has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 201 by inkorrekt, posted 10-07-2006 2:16 PM nator has not replied
 Message 202 by inkorrekt, posted 10-27-2006 12:35 PM nator has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 198 of 204 (353598)
10-02-2006 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by Brian
07-28-2006 8:17 AM


Re: touchy
I'm an atheist, it is in my nature to care about all living things.
Are you for abortion, or against it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Brian, posted 07-28-2006 8:17 AM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 199 by Brian, posted 10-02-2006 11:43 AM riVeRraT has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 199 of 204 (353616)
10-02-2006 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 198 by riVeRraT
10-02-2006 10:52 AM


Re: touchy
Are you for abortion, or against it?
Depends on the circumstances.
It is too complex an issue for a yes or no answer.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by riVeRraT, posted 10-02-2006 10:52 AM riVeRraT has not replied

  
AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 200 of 204 (353619)
10-02-2006 12:07 PM


Warning - Off Topic
The topic has strayed quite a bit. Please steer back to the spirit of the OP, which concerned what your doctor would say if you mentioned you talked with God.
If participants are unable or unwilling to return to the topic and continue off topic discussion, this thread will be closed due to Topic Difficulties.
Please direct any comments concerning this Admin msg to the Moderation Thread.
Any response in this thread will receive a 24 hour timeout.
Thank you Purple
Edited by AdminPD, : No reason given.

  
inkorrekt
Member (Idle past 6081 days)
Posts: 382
From: Westminster,CO, USA
Joined: 02-04-2006


Message 201 of 204 (354988)
10-07-2006 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 197 by nator
10-02-2006 10:11 AM


Re: touchy
OFF TOPIC - DO NOT RESPOND
A Christian is someone who calles themselves a Christian, as far as I'm concerned
Christian in the true sense is someone who has surrendered his life to Jesus Christ, who has also acknowledged Jesus Christ as one who died as a sacrifice for his sins and a person who has allowed God to transform his heart. Such a person can communicate with God.
However it is a fashion to call themselves as Christians without any convictions. Therefore all those who call themselves as Christians are not christians in the true sense. Therefore this poll concerning christians and the prison population does not reflect the true number.
Well, I only gave an example of FLAWED polling using the statistics on the attitudes on Illegal immigration. The comparison is only on the type of polling and not the emotional, personal attitudes or inner convictions.
If a non christian is polled and he says he is a christian, this does not reflect the true number of Christians. I am very active in politics. Sofar, I have never been polled. I am not alone. there are lots of others who have never been polled. The question once again is who is being polled and what is the sample size.
Unless a random sampling of a very very large polulation is studied,using proper controls these resutls have no meaning.
Finally, all those who call themselves as Christians are not christians. However, there is a considerable population of people who have serious convictions and their lives reflect their convictions and these are the people who TALK TO GOD on a daily basis.
Edited by AdminNWR, : off topic

This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by nator, posted 10-02-2006 10:11 AM nator has not replied

  
inkorrekt
Member (Idle past 6081 days)
Posts: 382
From: Westminster,CO, USA
Joined: 02-04-2006


Message 202 of 204 (359312)
10-27-2006 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 197 by nator
10-02-2006 10:11 AM


Re: touchy
Polls are nothing but, simple statistical tools to study a given polulation. The results can change dramatically depending on the nature of the question. The reason I brought up the issue of immigration is only as an example of a flawed study. Let me elaborate this. If I survey a majorioty of the illegal immigrants, they are going to approve illegal immigration as it includes them. If I survey those who are opposed to illegal immigration, I will get the opposite results. If I have to show that illegal immigration is approved by 55% of the population, then I have to adjust the sampling between those who approve this as well as those who oppose it. By properly matching the number of sublects from both the groups, I can manipulate the end results of the poll.
Applying the same analogy to those christians who go to prison, the result could be exactly the opposite if the study is designed with a large number of subjects representing real christians as well as those who are Christians ONLY BY NAME.
So, what is important is who is doing the polls and what are the questions and who are the subjects. The results can be manipulated by altering these parameters. Here is something interesting. Many many yers ago, I was a civilian invloved in Defense research project. We were assigned the job of studying the nutritional requirements of troops in the battle field. We did the study for 3 months in a mock battle field. We identified lots of pilferage of food and our results showed that they were getting insufficient calories. However, the Director wanted to cut down the rations. There was no justification as our results were contradicting his assumptions. They actually needed increase in the rations.
So, he assigned the statistician to work the numbers backwards till he was given the results he wanted. When he cut the ration, he was given an award for saving the defense budget!!!!!!!!!
So much for the Polling.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by nator, posted 10-02-2006 10:11 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 204 by nator, posted 10-28-2006 4:47 PM inkorrekt has not replied

  
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3597 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 203 of 204 (359473)
10-28-2006 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Brian
07-27-2006 12:07 PM


When the call is for you, but there's no phone
Brian:
What would your doctor say if you mentioned at a consultation that you regularly had conversations with God, and God tells you to do things?
The essential criterion in the diagnosis of any disorder is whether the behavior is functional or dysfunctional.
The experience of conversation with a being who is not demonstrably present is subjective and irrational. This is a given. The thing to find out is whether the experience enables or impairs a person's ability to function in the real world.
The doctor will want to know what God tells you to do.
Is God telling you to smoothe things over with your best friend after that argument you had last week? To take more notice of people you usually overlook and listen to them? To consider doing some volunteer work in the Peace Corps? To finish your coffee and get to your next appointment?
Or is God telling you that U2 songs contain secret codes planted by the Jews to facilitate their takeover of the UN? That a purple rhinoceras living in your toilet plans to do you some mischief next time you go to the loo? That you can get in on the ground floor of something big if you join Amway?
It's the quality, not the conversation.
___
Edited by Archer Opterix, : HTML.
Edited by Archer Opterix, : Subtitle.

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Brian, posted 07-27-2006 12:07 PM Brian has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 204 of 204 (359527)
10-28-2006 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 202 by inkorrekt
10-27-2006 12:35 PM


Re: touchy
quote:
So, what is important is who is doing the polls and what are the questions and who are the subjects. The results can be manipulated by altering these parameters. Here is something interesting. Many many yers ago, I was a civilian invloved in Defense research project. We were assigned the job of studying the nutritional requirements of troops in the battle field. We did the study for 3 months in a mock battle field. We identified lots of pilferage of food and our results showed that they were getting insufficient calories. However, the Director wanted to cut down the rations. There was no justification as our results were contradicting his assumptions. They actually needed increase in the rations.
So, he assigned the statistician to work the numbers backwards till he was given the results he wanted. When he cut the ration, he was given an award for saving the defense budget!!!!!!!!!
Well, that's fraud.
Just because this director cooked his numbers doesn't impact the usefullness of correctly conducted polling.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by inkorrekt, posted 10-27-2006 12:35 PM inkorrekt has not replied

  
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