Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 49 (9179 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: Jorge Parker
Post Volume: Total: 918,227 Year: 5,484/9,624 Month: 509/323 Week: 6/143 Day: 6/13 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   An Army of One
BMG
Member (Idle past 323 days)
Posts: 357
From: Southwestern U.S.
Joined: 03-16-2006


Message 37 of 59 (346416)
09-04-2006 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by crashfrog
09-04-2006 12:08 AM


Understand that they belong to a religious tradition that informs them that, if they learn to understand and tolerate your difference, they've failed in their duty to God and in their love to you.
And this is what is most frustrating and disconcerting about the whole situation. It's a justification for poking or prodding into another's personal life.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by crashfrog, posted 09-04-2006 12:08 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
BMG
Member (Idle past 323 days)
Posts: 357
From: Southwestern U.S.
Joined: 03-16-2006


Message 38 of 59 (346425)
09-04-2006 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Archer Opteryx
09-04-2006 1:59 AM


Ganging up is more than an attempt to talk to you. It is also a performance they put on for each other.
This is very, very likely.
The scene lets them gain status and build solidarity.
I agree. It's also a game of "proselytize the heretic".
None of them are going to concede anything with the others watching.
Good point. If I make an apt rebuttal to one of their questions, I see, before being jerked to another's question, they stop for just a few seconds, look down, and think of what I have just said. Then, they will look to others on the team.
That pensive look quickly fades, or is cast away like a dog shaking off fleas.
It's worth asking yourself who stands to gain the most from that picture.
It is. This is where my faults take center stage. A shimmer of me still wants to believe that I can get through to them, even with a group discussion.
A small sense of pride, it would seem, is sinking my ship. I have many faults of my own that need addressing, but the question you posed I will most certainly keep close.
Thanks Archer.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Archer Opteryx, posted 09-04-2006 1:59 AM Archer Opteryx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Dr_Tazimus_maximus, posted 09-04-2006 12:35 PM BMG has replied

  
BMG
Member (Idle past 323 days)
Posts: 357
From: Southwestern U.S.
Joined: 03-16-2006


Message 39 of 59 (346434)
09-04-2006 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Brad McFall
09-04-2006 9:43 AM


Re: compromise?
Well, then one ends up like my mother who thinks that both are fully compatible without knowing nor CARING how different the two are.
You're right. Compromise was a poor word choice. Not necessarily a compromise, but just an understanding. Peace. "I'll go my way, and you go yours", so to speak.
I care greatly in better understanding evolution, science, and organized religion. I went the extra step just last year and took a world religions class in which the professor was an Episcopalian Pastor. I guess Pastor is the word, not sure.
He was a very kind, tolerant and understanding person. He didn't preach, not once. He gave the facts, what each religion taught, the different branches each religion grew into, and so on.
If more Xians, and followers of faith were like him, there's no telling how deep and sure-footed the roots of harmony could grow.
Thanks, Brad.
P.S. I looked through the photo album. Great shots. I couldn't recognize which one was you though.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Brad McFall, posted 09-04-2006 9:43 AM Brad McFall has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by jar, posted 09-04-2006 12:26 PM BMG has replied
 Message 53 by Brad McFall, posted 09-04-2006 6:28 PM BMG has replied

  
BMG
Member (Idle past 323 days)
Posts: 357
From: Southwestern U.S.
Joined: 03-16-2006


Message 41 of 59 (346437)
09-04-2006 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by jar
09-04-2006 12:26 PM


Re: compromise?
Probably Priest. Reverand or Right Reverand are also common. But in the Episcopal Church, Joe, or Tom or Katherine is also acceptable.
I'll keep that in mind. Thanks, Jar.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by jar, posted 09-04-2006 12:26 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by jar, posted 09-04-2006 12:43 PM BMG has replied

  
BMG
Member (Idle past 323 days)
Posts: 357
From: Southwestern U.S.
Joined: 03-16-2006


Message 44 of 59 (346446)
09-04-2006 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Dr_Tazimus_maximus
09-04-2006 12:35 PM


The advice to avoid the issues is a good one if you want to maintain good relationships with your family, but that sounds like it will be unlikely.
I don't know. I have a good relationship with my family, I guess. It seems prescriptive issues are the ones most troubling. I learned a little time ago to limit greatly the need to debate prescriptive issues (abortion, gay rights, immigration, foreign policy, religion).
...the odds of my ever changing a fundamentalist mind...with logic and reason are slim at best.
Yes, I had to learn this the hard way.
The other thing that I do...is to learn the creationist arguments as they have a tendency to be passed on to the fundamentalist by preachers or prayer group leaders in a repetitious form.
I agree. Thus my desire to read up and learn more of what each side is trying to say.
About the arguments being passed on by preachers seems fairly concrete. As I mentioned earlier, my brother came directly home from a Rick Warren sermon, and immediately used the false dilemma(sp); you're either an evolutionist or a Xian. There can be no middle ground.
It's troubling and frustrating to see members of your own family willingly suspend critical thinking.
Thanks Doc.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Dr_Tazimus_maximus, posted 09-04-2006 12:35 PM Dr_Tazimus_maximus has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by dwise1, posted 09-04-2006 4:34 PM BMG has replied

  
BMG
Member (Idle past 323 days)
Posts: 357
From: Southwestern U.S.
Joined: 03-16-2006


Message 45 of 59 (346449)
09-04-2006 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by jar
09-04-2006 12:43 PM


Re: compromise?
The new Presiding Bishop(the head of the Episcopal Church) is a woman named Katharine Jefferts Schori and was an oceanographer with NMFS out of Seattle. She is also a pilot and loves to rock climb.
An interesting life, she leads.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by jar, posted 09-04-2006 12:43 PM jar has not replied

  
BMG
Member (Idle past 323 days)
Posts: 357
From: Southwestern U.S.
Joined: 03-16-2006


Message 48 of 59 (346499)
09-04-2006 5:01 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by dwise1
09-04-2006 4:34 PM


I have observed creation science advocates constantly use the term, "evolutionist", but when asked...refused to provide any kind of test to determine whether a given individual is an "evolutionist" or not.
Good point. Somehow I forgot to mention this. By their definition Pope John Paul II would be an evolutionist.
Your sites are interesting, and I thank you for your time and counsel.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by dwise1, posted 09-04-2006 4:34 PM dwise1 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by iano, posted 09-04-2006 6:01 PM BMG has replied

  
BMG
Member (Idle past 323 days)
Posts: 357
From: Southwestern U.S.
Joined: 03-16-2006


Message 51 of 59 (346519)
09-04-2006 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by NosyNed
09-04-2006 5:47 PM


Re: Note to infixion re "lying for god"
It might be interesting to ask your family about their attitudes toward "lying for the Lord". I would hope they don't accept it.
I would too.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by NosyNed, posted 09-04-2006 5:47 PM NosyNed has not replied

  
BMG
Member (Idle past 323 days)
Posts: 357
From: Southwestern U.S.
Joined: 03-16-2006


Message 52 of 59 (346520)
09-04-2006 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by iano
09-04-2006 6:01 PM


I might try that.
Thanks, iano.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by iano, posted 09-04-2006 6:01 PM iano has not replied

  
BMG
Member (Idle past 323 days)
Posts: 357
From: Southwestern U.S.
Joined: 03-16-2006


Message 55 of 59 (346555)
09-04-2006 9:09 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Brad McFall
09-04-2006 6:28 PM


Re: compromise?, ok nix it.
Luckily I've lost 15lbs since these were taken.
Congrats.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Brad McFall, posted 09-04-2006 6:28 PM Brad McFall has not replied

  
BMG
Member (Idle past 323 days)
Posts: 357
From: Southwestern U.S.
Joined: 03-16-2006


Message 56 of 59 (346557)
09-04-2006 9:36 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by dwise1
09-04-2006 6:35 PM


Re: Note to infixion re "lying for god"
Don't make the claim yourself that creation science is based on lies and deceptions, as that would put them on the defensive.
Fortunately, I haven't. Or perhaps I mean, ironically, I haven't.
Good luck.
Thanks.
Don't let it split the family, but don't let them bully you into submission, either. Stand for truth.
Truly appreciative, I am.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by dwise1, posted 09-04-2006 6:35 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
BMG
Member (Idle past 323 days)
Posts: 357
From: Southwestern U.S.
Joined: 03-16-2006


Message 58 of 59 (346931)
09-06-2006 8:58 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Dr Adequate
09-04-2006 9:39 PM


Thanks doc. The site was very helpful.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-04-2006 9:39 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024