Purple Dawn, You should read the previous posts so we dont have to repeat so much here.
Re Ezekiel Tyre prophecy
1) verses 3-6 refer to many nations not Nebudchanezzar
2) vs 7-11 are Nebudchanezzar which only says Neb would kill.
3) vs 12-14 are many nations again which was obviously fulfilled with the Muslim campaign and Alexander who did conquer the island fortress and scrape the mainland city into the sea.
Instead of marveling that Ezekiel predicted this over two hundred years prior. An attempt at all costs is made to find a word out of order etc... that is why people keep saying Neb was supposed to do it all and didnt (see previous posts) when he was only supposed to kill on the mainland (which he did) Others i.e. many nations were supposed to put the city into the sea and remove the great status which Alexander did. Even though there are 13 markers in Ezekiel that are evidence to date it at the time it claims because of his accuracy people late date it which is prejudice and apriori reasoning. The critics have been relentless. First stating there never was a siege against Tyre in the form of an argument from silence which was later answered and refuted. Then came quibbling about the form of Nebudchanezzar's assault which has been answered and continues to be asserted. Where is the awe of the prophecy of Tyre being attacked by many nations, put into the sea and never regaining her glory?
purpledawn writes:
They will destroy the walls of Tyre and pull down her towers; I will scrape away her rubble and make her a bare rock. "Out in the sea she will become a place to spread fishnets...
Two things here, one,...Ezekiel 27:2 says Tyre, 'You who are situated at the entrance of the sea...' and two, I would suggest a study of the Hebrew of 'out in the sea' and you'll find similar phrasing in other passages referring to Sidon which was not on an island as in the sea.
Here is the best most succinct scholastic summary I could find. All please read before responding further.
"1) The first challenge to Ezekiel's prophecy involves his statement that Nebuchadnezzar would attack Tyre. While this argument had force at the turn of the century, Jacob Katzenstein notes: "The many doubts about the authenticity of Ezekiel's words concerning a siege of Tyre by Nebuchadnezzar were shattered after Unger published a tablet which is an official receipt for provisions 'for the king and the soldiers who went with him against the land of Tyre.'"[16] The wording of the tablet strongly implies that the king himself headed the campaign and at least part of the following 13-year siege.
2) Once an external source confirmed the historicity of this siege of Tyre, skeptics focused on the next oddity: Nebuchadnezzar is described as attacking Tyre using land siege equipment! Walther Eichrodt ridicules this, noting the host of ancient references that describe Tyre as "an island in the midst of the sea," and he proposes that these verses are a "war song" added by later disciples to spice up the passage.[17]
Archaeologists and historians are not so quick to dispose of these verses: Bikai stresses that, due to severe space constraints on the island, the majority of the population and most of Tyre's factories and warehouses were located on the mainland.[18] Katzenstein discusses the letters of Qurdi-assur-lamur to Sargon which show the extensive interaction between the independent island port of Tyre and the Assyrian-controlled mainland.[19]
Perhaps the best collaboration with Ezekiel's description of the Babylonian attack and siege of Tyre comes from a campaign report of the Assyrian king Esarhaddon, who mentions building earthworks against Baal king of Tyre and withholding from them food and water. Moreover, it appears that the descriptive phrase "in the midst of the sea" does not require that Tyre be exclusively an island city: Esarhaddon Prisms A and B refer to Tyre's neighbor, the Phoenician coastal city-state Sidon as a "fortress town, which lied in the midst of the sea."[21] Also, Prism B includes Tyre in a list of cities located "on the coast of the sea." There seems to be some flexibility in ancient descriptions of coastal cities, so we should not try to press one description too far.
3) Critics then move on to their most serious charge: Nebuchadnezzar did not destroy the island city of Tyre. Clearly the prediction failed, and this failure is even admitted by Ezekiel himself (29:17-21) when he predicts that God will give Egypt to Nebuchadnezzar's troops as payment for their hard work in besieging Tyre.
Before responding to this, we must note two features in the prediction. The first is the opening statement that God will bring "many nations" against Tyre, "like the waves of the sea" (verse 3). This is a clear indication that we should not expect one nation or one attack to produce the severe destruction and final state of desolation that Ezekiel predicts. Second, we note that the attacker changes from singular (he) to plural (they) between verses 11 and 12. Up through verse 11, Ezekiel describes Nebuchadnezzar entering the gates of the city, trampling its streets, and slaying people. Verses 12 and following describe later waves of attackers (they) who take booty, destroy the city, and throw its debris into the water.
A closer look at Ez. 29:17-21 reveals that God's (and Ezekiel's) stated concern is not that Tyre was not taken, but that the troops did not receive adequate pay for their efforts. The historical record is clear that Nebuchadnezzar finally subjugated Tyre even though he did not raze the island. Babylonian records refer to a new king ruling Tyre after the siege, to the royal family of Tyre living in Babylon (in exile), and to a Babylonian official who governs Tyre.[22]
In summary we can reconstruct the following: Nebuchadnezzar, like Esarhaddon a century before him, waged a conventional land-based attack against the mainland portion of greater Tyre. He successfully captured the mainland, but not before most of the occupants had a chance to flee to the island fortress, taking the best of their goods with them. After a 13-year siege, the island was started into submission, and became a vassal of Babylon. There was a change' of leadership and undoubtedly some tribute paid, but the island was not pillaged. Given the minimal return for their effort, God rewarded Nebuchadnezzar's troops by granting them success against Egypt. Ezekiel 29:17-21 is not "making lemonade out of a lemon" or trying to cover for a failed prophecy; it is simply rewarding the first of the many waves of nations that will follow."
the citations:
[16] Katzenstein. The History of Tyre. p. 324. Citing Unger. Zeitschrift fur die alttestamentliche Wissenschaft 44 (1926), p. 316.
[17] Eichrodt. Ezekiel. p. 371.
[18] The mainland portion of greater Tyre was called Usu by Assyrians, "old Tyre" by Greeks.
[19] Katzenstein. History of Tyre. pp. 232-238.
[20] Katzenstein, ibid., p. 278. ANET, 1969, p. 292b.
[21] ANET, 1969, p. 290-1.
[22] Katzenstein, History of Tyre, p. 332ff. Patricia Bikai, Heritage of Tyre, p. 52. Eichrodt, Ezekiel, p. 378, citing Zimmerli.
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H. Jacob Katzenstein. The History of Tyre, from the Beginning of the Second Millenium B.C.E. until the Fall of the Neo-Babylonian Empire in 538 B.C.E. Jerusalem. The Schkocken Institute for Jewish Research, 1973
Walther Eichrodt. Ezekiel: A Commentary. Philadelphia, PA. The Westminster Press, 1970.
Patricia M. Bikai. Phoenician Tyre. The Heritage of Tyre. p. 46.
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So the island was important but not the main city which Neb took in 585 BC and which was scraped into the sea so Alexander could attack and take the island fortress; All just as Ezekiel said.
Edited by ReformedRob, : No reason given.
Edited by ReformedRob, : No reason given.
Edited by ReformedRob, : No reason given.
Edited by ReformedRob, : No reason given.
"...but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables"
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