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Author Topic:   How close are Christians to their god?
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 61 of 84 (340681)
08-16-2006 11:04 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by dogrelata
08-16-2006 2:13 PM


So how can we have any expectation that any human view as to the nature of reality is anything other than subjective, or bound by the limited terms of reference of a species of life living on a small planet in some distant corner of a vast universe?
You see, I tend to agree with this.

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RickJB
Member (Idle past 4991 days)
Posts: 917
From: London, UK
Joined: 04-14-2006


Message 62 of 84 (340731)
08-17-2006 4:41 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by riVeRraT
08-16-2006 12:48 PM


phat writes:
The only thing I can say is, that is why it is so important to understand what Jesus was saying, and what He tried to teach us.
But I don't believe Jesus spoke for God! Even if Jesus existed, he was just a run of the mill religious activist with no more knowledge of God than you or I.
phat writes:
Only arming yourself with that knowledge, and them comparing to real life will give you the answer to that.
I've read the Gospels. I don't see any answers. Certainly nothing beyond basic ideas of social conscience/morality.
phat writes:
At some point, God will speak to you, then you'll know.
Sorry, but I truly hate this sort of patronising statement. If you "know" whatever it is I'm supposed to then why not just tell me and let me put it to the test? If you can't then you know nothing more about God or "the truth" than I do, Please do not insult my intelligence by pretending to be the holder of some secret "knowledge".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by riVeRraT, posted 08-16-2006 12:48 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by RickJB, posted 08-17-2006 9:01 AM RickJB has not replied
 Message 65 by riVeRraT, posted 08-17-2006 9:28 AM RickJB has replied

  
RickJB
Member (Idle past 4991 days)
Posts: 917
From: London, UK
Joined: 04-14-2006


Message 63 of 84 (340761)
08-17-2006 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by RickJB
08-17-2006 4:41 AM


Sorry,
Quotations above should be from Riverrat, but EvC won't currently let me edit..

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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 64 of 84 (340762)
08-17-2006 9:07 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by dogrelata
08-16-2006 2:13 PM


Duplicate post
Edited by riVeRraT, : No reason given.

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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 65 of 84 (340767)
08-17-2006 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by RickJB
08-17-2006 4:41 AM


But I don't believe Jesus spoke for God! Even if Jesus existed, he was just a run of the mill religious activist with no more knowledge of God than you or I.
Tell me, what do you think of all what Jesus had to say about the Holy Spirit. And the truth.
Sorry, but I truly hate this sort of patronising statement. If you "know" whatever it is I'm supposed to then why not just tell me and let me put it to the test?
I do not need to tell you, you have read it already. You say you know the gospels. The bible has told, you, and I have told you, probably several times in this forum.
One cannot explain the Holy Spirit to someone, and then expect for them to feel it. It comes in God's timing, not ours. Leading a life of prayer is a good start to experiencing it. Constant communication with God, by faith is how you get there, I believe. You have denied it all, so I don't know if God still has a plan for you to meet the Holy Spirit or not.
If you can't then you know nothing more about God or "the truth" than I do, Please do not insult my intelligence by pretending to be the holder of some secret "knowledge".
Believe me, I am not trying to insult anyone's intelligence here. I was "in the dark" about many things, when it comes to God. Then one day God enlightened me. The only thing I was doing was casually seeking Him. I have no clue why I got to experience what I did, and do on a day to day bases, but one of the reasons might be that God knew I would be faithful and try to tell others about it like you.
Jesus said we must be baptised in water, AND in the spirit, AND be born again.
If you know the gospels so well, what is that supposed to mean then?
Also, I want to say that I am humble about my experience, and there is no way to prove it to you, since you do not know me. I will freely admit that the day I felt the Holy Spirit is either the day I went crazy, or felt a small portion of God's love that changed my whole life. Many things make more sense now, however many questions remain.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by RickJB, posted 08-17-2006 4:41 AM RickJB has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by RickJB, posted 08-17-2006 9:47 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
RickJB
Member (Idle past 4991 days)
Posts: 917
From: London, UK
Joined: 04-14-2006


Message 66 of 84 (340774)
08-17-2006 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by riVeRraT
08-17-2006 9:28 AM


riverrat writes:
Tell me, what do you think of all what Jesus had to say about the Holy Spirit. And the truth.
Assuming his existence, I think HE might have believed what he said. I, however, don't believe he knew the "truth" any more than Mohammed or any other prophet/messiah.
riverrat writes:
The bible has told, you, and I have told you, probably several times in this forum.
Sorry, but the gospels contain nothing that resonates with me. I find them very dull and parochial. The Iliad is much more interesting. An astronomy book really fascinates me....
riverrat writes:
Then one day God enlightened me. The only thing I was doing was casually seeking Him.
Fair enough, and apologies if I came across in an unduly harsh manner. Though I do have questions about my surroundings, I have no interest in looking for or worshipping a God that I cannot see.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by riVeRraT, posted 08-17-2006 9:28 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by riVeRraT, posted 08-17-2006 9:58 PM RickJB has not replied
 Message 70 by riVeRraT, posted 08-17-2006 10:10 PM RickJB has not replied

  
dogrelata
Member (Idle past 5312 days)
Posts: 201
From: Scotland
Joined: 08-04-2006


Message 67 of 84 (340837)
08-17-2006 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by RickJB
08-16-2006 4:20 AM


RickJB writes:
However, many humans do clearly crave such certainty. Given this fact I think some form of religion will always be a part of human culture, no matter how far our science advances.
For sure. The extent to which any these religions are able to sustain any ”critical mass’ may well depend on how far and quickly they can evolve given the speed at which scientific understanding is moving.
I recall watching a religious debate on TV a few years ago. One of the Christian theologians opined that he felt it was no longer even necessary to believe in god to be a Christian these days. Which many people will not be able to agree with, but I’d be surprised if they didn’t agree that this is a sentiment that would not have been expressed a couple of hundred years ago.

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dogrelata
Member (Idle past 5312 days)
Posts: 201
From: Scotland
Joined: 08-04-2006


Message 68 of 84 (340854)
08-17-2006 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by jar
08-16-2006 2:33 PM


Re: on Satan.
jar writes:
If you read much of what I post here at EvC I believe that you will find me often arguing the very same points.
It’s tough to post and still find the time read as much as I’d like, so am not as familiar with anyone’s views as I’d like to be. Hopefully that will change as time goes by.
Instead I find myself having to ask things that people may have answered countless times before. However, if you’re interested, I do have one question for you. It concerns the chronology of your experience of your god. To the uninitiated layman like me, it is possible to imagine three separate phases of that experience. They might be the first teaching or awareness that led you to understand that (some) people believed in a supernatural entity. Another might be the first time you observed something that made you think of that god. And yet another might be the first time you ”felt’ your god with or within you.
Are these things you can identify with? I guess what I’m really interested in is whether you feel the experience could be broken down into separate phases, as above, one leading on from another.
Thanks.

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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 69 of 84 (340939)
08-17-2006 9:58 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by RickJB
08-17-2006 9:47 AM


Fair enough, and apologies if I came across in an unduly harsh manner. Though I do have questions about my surroundings, I have no interest in looking for or worshipping a God that I cannot see.
Astronomy really interests me too. I own an 8" newtonian, on an equatorial mount, made by meade.
I was interested in looking, ever since the birth of my daughter, it just amazes me. I was not interested in worshipping a God I could not see or feel either, until I felt Him, then it became a different story, so I understand completely. I am not caterorgizing you and me, just trying to share with you, what I went through, it's part of my testimony, and I believe it is important to share it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by RickJB, posted 08-17-2006 9:47 AM RickJB has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 70 of 84 (340942)
08-17-2006 10:10 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by RickJB
08-17-2006 9:47 AM


Fair enough, and apologies if I came across in an unduly harsh manner. Though I do have questions about my surroundings, I have no interest in looking for or worshipping a God that I cannot see.
Astronomy really interests me too. I own an 8" newtonian, on an equatorial mount, made by meade.
I was interested in looking, ever since the birth of my daughter, it just amazes me. I was not interested in worshipping a God I could not see or feel either, until I felt Him, then it became a different story, so I understand completely. I am not caterorgizing you and me, just trying to share with you, what I went through, it's part of my testimony, and I believe it is important to share it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by RickJB, posted 08-17-2006 9:47 AM RickJB has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by AdminJar, posted 08-17-2006 10:16 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 71 of 84 (340946)
08-17-2006 10:16 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by riVeRraT
08-17-2006 10:10 PM


test reply
testing thread. Do NOT reply to this message

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by riVeRraT, posted 08-17-2006 10:10 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 72 of 84 (340948)
08-17-2006 10:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by dogrelata
08-08-2006 2:17 PM


Testing thread
This is just a test. If it had really been Rapture you'd be ruptured.
DO NOT REPLY

This message is a reply to:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22394
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 73 of 84 (341026)
08-18-2006 9:00 AM


Test reply...
Just testing...

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 74 of 84 (341226)
08-18-2006 11:02 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by robinrohan
08-12-2006 7:55 AM


That must be a real strain on you, trying so hard not to judge people.
no, not really.
For example, I think I'm right and that people who disagree with me are wrong. However, it doesn't offend me that they should be wrong.
i often entertain the idea that i'm very wrong about very many things.


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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 75 of 84 (341227)
08-18-2006 11:04 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Archer Opteryx
08-16-2006 1:16 PM


Re: Christian Criteria
Was Christ a Christian?
in john, probably. in other books, it's arguable. it's a little hard to establish. was christ even real?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Archer Opteryx, posted 08-16-2006 1:16 PM Archer Opteryx has not replied

  
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