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Author Topic:   Media and Religion today
jar
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 34140
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 31 of 63 (339682)
08-12-2006 8:29 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Chiroptera
08-12-2006 5:56 PM


Re: Tal! I've been thinking about you!
I wonder if he means 97 Echoes"?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Chiroptera, posted 08-12-2006 5:56 PM Chiroptera has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Tal, posted 08-12-2006 8:36 PM jar has not replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5932 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 32 of 63 (339684)
08-12-2006 8:36 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by jar
08-12-2006 8:29 PM


Re: Tal! I've been thinking about you!
You really shouldn't be worried about military interrogators. You may want to shift focus to the real problem; which, I notice, you seem to be ignoring.
These pictures remind you of another youth program? Germany in the 40s perhaps?

Wil kill for a Nobel Peace Prize

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by jar, posted 08-12-2006 8:29 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Chiroptera, posted 08-12-2006 8:40 PM Tal has not replied
 Message 34 by Chiroptera, posted 08-12-2006 9:37 PM Tal has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 33 of 63 (339685)
08-12-2006 8:40 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Tal
08-12-2006 8:36 PM


Looks like a Jr. ROTC program in the US. But my guess is that those kids aren't Americans (or allies), and therefore must be dangerous fanatics.

"These monkeys are at once the ugliest and the most beautiful creatures on the planet./ And the monkeys don't want to be monkeys; they want to be something else./ But they're not."
-- Ernie Cline

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Tal, posted 08-12-2006 8:36 PM Tal has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 34 of 63 (339698)
08-12-2006 9:37 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Tal
08-12-2006 8:36 PM


Is Tal a Quaker?
According to this BBC article, it seems that Tal isn't the only one who thinks that state organized military training for kids is a problem.

"These monkeys are at once the ugliest and the most beautiful creatures on the planet./ And the monkeys don't want to be monkeys; they want to be something else./ But they're not."
-- Ernie Cline

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Tal, posted 08-12-2006 8:36 PM Tal has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Tal, posted 08-13-2006 12:48 AM Chiroptera has replied

  
alacrity fitzhugh
Member (Idle past 4544 days)
Posts: 194
Joined: 02-10-2004


Message 35 of 63 (339703)
08-12-2006 9:58 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Tal
08-12-2006 8:26 PM


Re: Tal! I've been thinking about you!
tal writes:
I work with 97 Echos.
Are you claiming to be a member of the 3rd special forces group airborne?

there is only one good,knowledge,
and one evil, ignorance.
Socrates.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Tal, posted 08-12-2006 8:26 PM Tal has not replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5932 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 36 of 63 (339731)
08-13-2006 12:48 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Chiroptera
08-12-2006 9:37 PM


Re: Is Tal a Quaker?
Wow. The last time I checked, JROTC and ROTC don't teach bigotry and genocide in their curricula. The comparison simply shows how moronic you truly are.

Wil kill for a Nobel Peace Prize

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Chiroptera, posted 08-12-2006 9:37 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Chiroptera, posted 08-13-2006 8:53 AM Tal has not replied

  
Theus
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 63 (339739)
08-13-2006 1:16 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Tal
08-12-2006 4:59 PM


When generalized, the world is a scary place
Tal, I spent a month working with Palestinians from near the Jenin Refugee camp this summer, as well as with Arab Israelis from Afula and Nazareth. I've studied with Muslims from Mauritania and Iraq over the past year. And they have displayed greater tolerance, wisdom, and understanding then you with all your jingling swords.
I am disgusted to see you label a religion as such. There are extremists in every religion, from Hinduism to Islam to Christianity. The trick is not to use that shade of color when painting stereotypes.
quote:
His political and religous views are that Israel needs to be wiped off the map. He's said it publically many times; most recently this week.
Yeah, Amadinejad is a nasty guy, I've volunteered for Amnesty International and from the information I've seen he's a lot worse than threatening words to the people of Iran. But he's also a radical minority ruling over a growing secular population and much of his anti-Israel rhetoric is as much maintaining internal control through an artificial enemy (like Iraq) as it is foreign policy. The best way to defeat such ignorant, self-gratifying fundamentalists is by NOT replicating their worse traits.
quote:
Lines are being drawn. Sides are being chosen. It WILL come down to us, or them, and I don't mean just the freak Islam boys. I mean the entire religion. Not very PC to say, but its the truth nonetheless.
How about instead of complaining about an inevitable war, doing a little bit to disarm conflict when you see it. Join Amnesty, or if you've already stereotyped that group try just saying "hi" to a Muslim to let them know that they're not isolated from the rest of the world. Many Arabs and Muslims who have moved to the western world are often isolated because of their different appearance and beliefs, helping to ease them into our societies will go a long way in keeping them from falling in with the wrong crowd.
quote:
Theus, your worry is pointed towards the wrong religion I am afraid.
My aim isn't on any religion, yours or theirs. It is on individuals, such as yourself and Amadinejad who seem to think that some apocalyptic conclusion is necessary to justify your beliefs. The power of such a sentiment, particularly when espoused by leaders of nations, is very dangerous.
Such religious and apocalyptic religion fueled the Crusades, particularly in the latter half concerning the re-conquest of Jerusalem. We can see how accurate such reasoning was then, and guess how accurate it is now. The apocalypse always looms, and we are always special for it.
quote:
Oh, and then there is Hugo Chaves who has been quoted as saying that he feels love and compassion for all the Arab people, and might actually be Arab himself.
So, after this post I see cards are on the table. There is a difference between Arab and Muslim, ask any Christian who lives in Nazareth or Jerusalem. And I am no more threatened by Chavez if he followed Islam than if he followed Christianity. Actually, not afraid of him at all. That he as a leftist and was elected in his country and has survived a coup suggests that a large body of his people share his beliefs, and our behavior as a nation (I'm assuming you're American here), has stimulated this response. It’s our responsibility to be better at foreign relations and do better business to disarm such anti-American sentiment at its root.
Very few people do things because they are trying to be evil, the vast majority of us are doing things we think are good based on the limited information we have. Hopefully with time the internet and other mediums will help corrode such differences in reality perception. The world will never perfect, but there's no reason that it can't be reasonable for everyone.
‘’‘’ ‘’’’‘’
Theus
Edited by Theus, : Small typo at the front and forgot to add a title

‘ ‘ — — ‘

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Tal, posted 08-12-2006 4:59 PM Tal has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Tal, posted 08-13-2006 1:32 AM Theus has replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5932 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 38 of 63 (339742)
08-13-2006 1:32 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by Theus
08-13-2006 1:16 AM


Re: When generalized, the world is a scary place
How about instead of complaining about an inevitable war, doing a little bit to disarm conflict when you see it. Join Amnesty, or if you've already stereotyped that group try just saying "hi" to a Muslim to let them know that they're not isolated from the rest of the world.
I'm not complaining. That is my assessment. I have spent 6 months in Egypt and 8 months in Baghdad. I've met many fine Muslims there. Don't stereotype me
It is on individuals, such as yourself and Amadinejad who seem to think that some apocalyptic conclusion is necessary to justify your beliefs.
Reread my post. I don't need anything to justify my beliefs. Amadinjad does, and is pursuing just that end.
The power of such a sentiment, particularly when espoused by leaders of nations, is very dangerous.
Ding.
Very few people do things because they are trying to be evil, the vast majority of us are doing things we think are good based on the limited information we have. Hopefully with time the internet and other mediums will help corrode such differences in reality perception. The world will never perfect, but there's no reason that it can't be reasonable for everyone.
A agree with your summary, unfortunatley ours is a world governed by the aggressive use of force. Amadinejad doesn't believe he is being evil either. If he has to kill a few million jews to usher in the Mahdi than that's for the good of Islam. Keep in mind this is the country that sent thier children to the Iriania Egnineers in the Iran/Iraq war with gold keys tied around their necks. Then the engineers sent these children into minefields. The gold key was the key to paradise, so who cares if they blow up?
I don't think Amadinejad will be pursuaded by an internet debate on the subject.

Wil kill for a Nobel Peace Prize

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Theus, posted 08-13-2006 1:16 AM Theus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Chiroptera, posted 08-13-2006 9:16 AM Tal has not replied
 Message 41 by Theus, posted 08-13-2006 11:05 AM Tal has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 63 (339771)
08-13-2006 8:53 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by Tal
08-13-2006 12:48 AM


Re: Is Tal a Quaker?
What comparisons? You just posted pictures saying, "Be scared, kids, be very scared." Which is pretty typical of neo-con arguments -- lurid anectdotes with no context, very little true facts, and no logical development.
What is interesting is, despite how moronic the neo-con claims are, so little electoral fraud is necessary to keep the Republicans in power.

"These monkeys are at once the ugliest and the most beautiful creatures on the planet./ And the monkeys don't want to be monkeys; they want to be something else./ But they're not."
-- Ernie Cline

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Tal, posted 08-13-2006 12:48 AM Tal has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 40 of 63 (339772)
08-13-2006 9:16 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Tal
08-13-2006 1:32 AM


Re: When generalized, the world is a scary place
quote:
Keep in mind this is the country that sent thier children to the Iriania Egnineers in the Iran/Iraq war with gold keys tied around their necks. Then the engineers sent these children into minefields. The gold key was the key to paradise, so who cares if they blow up?
Actually, I have been having trouble verifying this, too.

"These monkeys are at once the ugliest and the most beautiful creatures on the planet./ And the monkeys don't want to be monkeys; they want to be something else./ But they're not."
-- Ernie Cline

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Tal, posted 08-13-2006 1:32 AM Tal has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by MangyTiger, posted 08-13-2006 4:06 PM Chiroptera has replied

  
Theus
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 63 (339779)
08-13-2006 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Tal
08-13-2006 1:32 AM


Re: When generalized, the world is a scary place
quote:
Lines are being drawn. Sides are being chosen. It WILL come down to us, or them, and I don't mean just the freak Islam boys. I mean the entire religion. Not very PC to say, but its the truth nonetheless.
Seems clear, though non-PC enough, then
quote:
I'm not complaining. That is my assessment. I have spent 6 months in Egypt and 8 months in Baghdad. I've met many fine Muslims there. Don't stereotype me
Would you argue that the people you've had experience with in quote #2 are the same danger posed in quote#1? Such sweeping generalizations seem to wash away individuals.
— —
Theus

‘ ‘ — — ‘

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Tal, posted 08-13-2006 1:32 AM Tal has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Tal, posted 08-13-2006 2:55 PM Theus has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 63 (339793)
08-13-2006 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Theus
08-04-2006 10:41 PM


Media hounds
As far as I'm concerned CNN and Fox News are the worst dangers to that region (and ours) because they give a voice to the extreme elements of any conflict and isolate (and thus discourage) the more moderate majority. I would like to know what others think, because I think more than any one war or one political controversy this is a problem that needs to be addressed. If our "eyes" for the rest of the world are so jaded and nearsighted, we have the obligation to do our best to change it, but only if everyone sees the same problem.
The media is always a problem. The more sensational they can portray something, the higher their ratings. Perhaps if there was one media outlet, there would be no one to 'one-up' as far as sensationalizing goes. As well, too many of the outlets are prone towards bias coverage that seems to fit the agenda of those presenting the news. But their job isn't to inject opinion. That is the job of pundits. Somebody like Hannity and Colmes have the right to do this because that's the premise of the show. That's fine. Who doesn't have the right to do it, whatsoever, is the nightly news anchors, like, Rather, Jennings, and Brokaw. That isn't their job. Their job is to simply report the news, whatever it may be. I've long had a problem with this, and since being exposed, I've noticed a that the networks are trying to appeal to a non-partison base. The world isn't comprised of soley Conservatives. The world isn't comprised of soely Liberals, or Moderates, or anything else. Just report what happened, and stop trying to steer news in any direction. History is what it is. The study of histroy or an accounting of history has no bias. Just record it. That's their job. It would be well with them to never lose sight of that as being a Golden rule.
That was a very interesting story by the way. Thanks for sharing.

“If chance be the father of all flesh then disaster is his rainbow in the sky. And when you hear of, state of emergencies, sniper kills ten, youths go looting, bomb blasts school, it is but the sound of man worshipping his maker” -Steve Turner

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Theus, posted 08-04-2006 10:41 PM Theus has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by BMG, posted 08-13-2006 1:28 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 43 of 63 (339794)
08-13-2006 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Theus
08-07-2006 11:52 AM


Re: True but...
This won't turn into WW3, and can't. The conflict misses the essential ingredient that makes a world war, alliances. Granted, Israel is surrounded by enemies. This doesn't mean that other countries in the region aren't already surrounded by enemies. Remember Syria pulling out of Lebenon last year? Or how despised Sadaam was by surrounding nations? Each nation in this region has antagonistic relationships with each other. That a nation such as Iran would support a group such as Hezbollah is not evidence of an alliance with a nation, it is a demonstration to the contrary! The region is too easily simplified into muslim vs. jew.
I disagree. Any war has the potential to become WWIII. But I would agree with you that if any news stations are reporting conjecture, they've lost sight of their job. But there is little question as to whether or not the situation in the Middle East is a volatile firebrand. Of course it is. It has the apocolyptic potential. Ever since the advent of nuclear weaponry we will always teeter on the edge of a knife. The only thing that has stayed anyone's hand is self-preservation. All it takes is a suicide bomber, indifferent to life, to gain access to a nuclear weapon and to wait for the fallout. The potential is always there.

“If chance be the father of all flesh then disaster is his rainbow in the sky. And when you hear of, state of emergencies, sniper kills ten, youths go looting, bomb blasts school, it is but the sound of man worshipping his maker” -Steve Turner

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Theus, posted 08-07-2006 11:52 AM Theus has not replied

  
BMG
Member (Idle past 464 days)
Posts: 357
From: Southwestern U.S.
Joined: 03-16-2006


Message 44 of 63 (339796)
08-13-2006 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Hyroglyphx
08-13-2006 1:07 PM


Re: Media hounds
Hi NJ.
Perhaps if there was one media outlet, there would be no one to 'one-up' as far as sensationalizing goes.
A "media monarchy" is the answer to our problems with the media? One outlet that has absolute rule over the flow of information from our televisions?
History is what it is. The study of history or an accounting of history has no bias. Just record it. That's their job.
Wishful thinking. Just because historians should record events bereft of bias and prejudice doesn't make it so.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-13-2006 1:07 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-13-2006 1:56 PM BMG has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 45 of 63 (339802)
08-13-2006 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by BMG
08-13-2006 1:28 PM


Re: Media hounds
A "media monarchy" is the answer to our problems with the media? One outlet that has absolute rule over the flow of information from our televisions?
You do realize that networks compete against each other for ratings, right? If there was one network there wouldn't be any competition. It doesn't mean that they couldn't be federally regulated.
Wishful thinking. Just because historians should record events bereft of bias and prejudice doesn't make it so.
It may be wishful thinking but that doesn't mean we have to just give up. There will continue to be evil acts in the world too, despite our best efforts, but that doesn't mean we just give up and make matters worse by not trying to alleviate those problems.

“If chance be the father of all flesh then disaster is his rainbow in the sky. And when you hear of, state of emergencies, sniper kills ten, youths go looting, bomb blasts school, it is but the sound of man worshipping his maker” -Steve Turner

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by BMG, posted 08-13-2006 1:28 PM BMG has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by BMG, posted 08-13-2006 2:31 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
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