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Author Topic:   Some abiogenesis considerations
Wounded King
Member (Idle past 119 days)
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 6 of 46 (335957)
07-28-2006 6:07 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Nighttrain
07-28-2006 5:36 AM


Re: Abiogenesis is imho-possible
I`m no biologist, AF, but the fact that bacteria have intruded into other species to a limited (but life-necessary) extent, seems to point to multiple lines of abiogenesis. I imagine in a time of non-bacterial dependence, other species may have managed on their own, but I can`t conceive how they coped.
Im not sure what this means and I'm certainly not sure how it has any relevance to the question of whether all life has a common origin. No species need ever have been bacterially independent since bacteria would already have been there extant in the environment. By the time any multicellular life reached a size suitable for bacterial colonisation I should think it would already to be host to innumerable bacteria.
I'm assuming you are thinking of things like gut bacteria rather than things like mitochondria or chloroplasts, but its hard to tell from your post.
Morphology seems to point to different origins, too, with a large number of species having mouth, eyes and other sense organs in close proximity and excretory organs at a distance. Versus others that have evolved along different lines.
I don't see how modern difference present much of a problem for common ancestry. if the different morphologies were the product of different abiogenetic events then how do you explain the sharing of a common genetic material and code? Not to mention the sharing of many of the same genes. Why is it not more likely that they have evolved along different lines having diverged from a common ancestor?
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Nighttrain, posted 07-28-2006 5:36 AM Nighttrain has not replied

Wounded King
Member (Idle past 119 days)
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 8 of 46 (336035)
07-28-2006 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Annafan
07-28-2006 11:05 AM


Re: in other words...
I don't think the basic logic of the argument really holds up. why couldn't carbon based nucleic acids just have happened to be the first suitable form of 'living' material to arise and subsequently have had a sufficient temporal edge to be able to outcompete any alternative forms? Indeed subsequent activity of living organisms may have compromised an environment capable of giving rise to other systems.
Really this suffers from the same problem as any other about the speculative likelihood of abiogenesis, with only 1 actual sample and a wealth of possible variables we are severely handicapped in making any reliable measures of probability.
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Annafan, posted 07-28-2006 11:05 AM Annafan has replied

Replies to this message:
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Wounded King
Member (Idle past 119 days)
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 21 of 46 (336568)
07-30-2006 3:15 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by randman
07-29-2006 7:31 PM


Re: a quick comment
Also, note that evo claims of convergent evolution argue that different and similar forms arise via environmental pressures and so evos already refute ironically the claim that such similarities must be the result of a common ancestor.
Luckily for those of us living in the 21st century form is not all we have to go on.
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by randman, posted 07-29-2006 7:31 PM randman has not replied

Wounded King
Member (Idle past 119 days)
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 24 of 46 (338461)
08-08-2006 2:15 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by AnswersInGenitals
08-07-2006 10:54 PM



This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 08-07-2006 10:54 PM AnswersInGenitals has not replied

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