jar - On Christianity

This puppy has already viewed the Robin Williams clip tonight. True Christian? Enough already!

God loves a try-er?Edited by iano, : No reason given.

Nope.

Robin,Some questions for you about which I am curious (based on your tone in a few posts further up).Q1: Do you believe Jesus of Nazareth existed?Q2: If yes to Q1, do you believe that what he is reported as having said was in fact said by him (more or less)Q3: If yes to Q2, do you believe that what he said is true. And if not why not (briefly)Edited by iano, : No reason given.Edited by iano, : No reason given.

I must accept with humility (difficult for one such as me) that the likes of Ringo and Jar are infinitely more productive in the field of evangelism than me. God, as your general stance against their non-sequitur/cheerful conundrum/paradoxical-speak indicates, can use the negative to as good effect as he can the positive.Honestly Robin, I cannot comment on what Ringo and Jar say. I'm a simple engineer. Straightforward logic I can handle (although I am prepared to accept mystery at the nodal points where it occurs) - but not that kind of stuff. Best I can say is that truth is timeless. It has been and always will be truth. Truth is not in need of 'modernisation' otherwise it wouldn't be truth.Sure, Jesus' imagery of sheeps and goats and camels and needles was super-fit for the setting of his day. But by no means so as to require modernisation. How would one go about modernising "Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone. Make it a "Let he who has not sinned be first to put a dum-dum bullet in her brain" if you must - but I think that is dancing around the fringes.

'Legends' wasn't in the question. The question is what you believe rather than what you think. They are different. What is your belief: did he live or is he a myth (no empirical evidence required)? Your belief at this time. Let's call the edge of the razor blade 'agnosticism '. Some balance there. Is it that or do you plump for one side or the other (you're not bi are you?) You've read CS's conundrum I'm sure. So which of his options do you plump for? Insane/liar/truth ...or other. Of course not. It is unnatural for us to do so. Naturally we would strike back. But you know that the 'natural man' is precisely what gets "put to death" at the point of salvation. What do you think people thought when he said that:" Turn the other cheek? I can't do that (be it someone stealing my sheep or someone commenting on my girlfriends figure when I walk through the town on Saturday night - so much for modernisation huh?)"He asks us to do the impossible. Apply logic: "I cannot do that" is it not?

More likely you'd lose your front teeth. I'm a sinner - you shouldn't lose sight of that fact Ringo.

Your level of certainty..on a scale of 1 to 100?

There might be a profundity in there somewhere but for the life of me..

Curious. You defend him in opposite measure.Night Robin. She'll be back shortly.TTFN

Self-love is like falling off a log for us all. If you cannot find one instance of Jesus loving himself (hint: "it's like looking for a needle in a stack of needles") how much would you knock off your "he was deluded" score. 10? 20?

Well observed sis. I think I remember Robin talking before of experiencing some ache at the sight of infinite seas and skies - his insignificance. But ache doesn't exactly drip from the pages of his posting does it?Could this be sentimental nihilism..on a par with the sentimental Christianity that Robin detests so much?

Of course that is what you see. The Bible says a) you are blind and so are unable to see God b) you can do nothing about your own blindness. Do you remember this story? There was only one thing which was involved with us making the shift. We believed that our mother wasn't deluded. That she was telling us the truth. She had put faith in her into us and we expressed the faith she had put into us and kept looking because we believed what she said. And through that faith she had given us we came to see.Its exactly the same thing with Christ. But you think he is deluded - despite that not at all fitting the man. You don't think deluded in fact - you think things that he said and did were impossible. That is disbelief. God will put that faith into you, unless you reject his attempts to do so."Faith is the substance of things hoped for (to see pinkines), the evidence of things not seen (the pinkines were there and the evidence was our faith in mam)"Edited by iano, : No reason given.Edited by iano, : No reason given.

Might I be so presumptious as to suggest you find a resting place with those who say they find their rest in him. That of all worldviews (bar nihilism), Christianity strikes you as most reasonable - the only problem being you can't see it?God pulls people to him by eliminating all other possibilities (in my own experience)